Utah Regulation Changes ?????

Utah Fishing Reports & Discussion Utah Fishing General
1

:sunglasses:Okay gang, here is a good topic to keep us busy on a typically slow Friday…and beyond.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT DWR MANAGEMENT AND REGULATIONS, OVERALL, AND WHAT CHANGES WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE?

We have a lot of threads throughout the year on one issue or another. Some are valid concerns. Others are just personal opinions…good or bad. Everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.

But, let’s find out what YOUR “hot buttons” are. What irks you? What really gets your dandruff up? What gets your blood boiling?

Now, let’s be fair. For the most part, the regulations in place are the result of many years of hard work by dedicated professional biologists and fisheries management people. Even though some of our current regs make you scratch your head and wonder Whuzzup Widdat?, they usually have sound reasoning behind them. We do not always have all of the information that was behind the regulations.

But, there are plenty of places in the “Fishing Guide” for 2008 that cause newcomers to Utah…and even a lotta oldtimers…to really wonder WHY???

Just to get your thought processes going, let’s point out a few examples.

1. Bass “management”. There is no stocking program and there are several different slot and keep limits for different waters around the state. Do you think DWR should continue to manage on an individual water basis…or simply set up uniform statewide regulations (like most other states)?

2. Ditto for perch. Perch do not really need much management. They will have boom and bust cycles regardless of what anglers do. But, the limits and restrictions are all over the map…literally. Still a 50 fish limit at Pineview, where they could use some protection. Only a 20 fish limit at Starvation where they need some harvesting. Not much of a proactive management program. Again, should there be a simple statewide limit and just let the perch fend for themselves? Many states have no limit on perch and no shortage of them either.

3. Walleyes. Are you happy with the 10 fish limit? Increased slot size? Have you ever caught 10 walleye? Have you ever caught more than one over 24" on any given trip? Any ideas or suggestions one way or another.

5. Trout. Most people are good with the current limits and slot restrictions. We have discussed including rainbows in the slot restrictions at Strawberry, but that is not likely to happen. Any other trout waters or regulations that you would like to change? How about regs for macks at Bear Lake and FG?

6. Catfish? I would like to see “jug lines” allowed on Utah Lake. A lot of fun chasing down those jugs when there is a kitty on the other end.

7. Carp? I would like to see the legalizing of the use of corn for carp fishing. Make it legal only in non-trout waters for carp fishing only.

8. Crappies? Any thoughts?

9. Bluegills and Sunfish?

10. Northern Pike? Do we want more waters with pike in them? Do we want different regulations on current pike ponds?

11. Tiger muskies? Bigger size limits during the temporary gap in being able to get new tigers…to help reduce harvest?

**12. Burbot? Everybody good with no limit and mandatory keep laws? **

13. How about multi pole permits for ice fishing…with tipups…on more than Flaming Gorge?

14. Anything else?

By the way, not looking for everybody to respond to each of the numbers. Pick your pet issue and give it a quick shot. You can pop back in and make another comment if somebody else reminds you of a pet peeve.

Let’s keep it light and positive. If you voice a complaint, try to offer a satisfactory (to you) solution. Let’s not just make this a gripe session. Let’s make an honest effort to really think about what else we would like to get from our angling opportunities in Utah.

Let 'er rip.

2

I’ll bite on the tip-up issue, I think you should be able to use aleast 1 tip-up + pole without second pole permit and 2 with second pole permit, it’s not like you can cover alot a water with a tip-up so why be so strict? To be honest the only place ive used then alot is in MN where you can use two (I think..maybe more) on just about any water, and I only used them to catch Pike. Just my 2 cents.

FF462 :sunglasses:

3

:sunglasses:And while we are at it, let’s get the use of live bait legalized…like in MN and most other civilized states.

4

Flaming Gorge: All lake trout over 28 inches must be released.
Linwood Bay CLOSED from November 1-Dec. 15.

5

I like jug lines on Utah Lake and the use of corn as bait. My real hot button is not a reg but not enough CO to enforce the ones on the books. I would like to see more enforcement at the community ponds to stop those people who walk away with a bucket full of fish after DWR plants and enough officers on the road to have an quick response to reports of violations. I know there is not enough officers to do the job now and they are working their fins off LOL.

6

Being from the South, I like to use yo yo’s. It is a spring loaded circular device that looks like a yo yo and you tie one end to a tree and the other end goes into the water. When a fish hits it, a lever is tripped and it pulls the fish nearly out of the water. This is great for catching catfish. I know you can use a set line in Utah. I would like to hit the Bear River for some cats. Is this method legal? I have not seen it anywhere in the Proclamation.

7

No to the live bait- maybe if it’s from the same water that you are fishing but I think you are just opening up a can of worms.

8

:sunglasses:My interpretation would be that using a “yo yo” setup would probably fall under the setline statutes. You can use one setline, with up to 15 hooks, if you buy a $15 setline permit. It does not count as a fishing pole. You can use one rod without a 2 pole permit…or two rods besides the setline if you buy the 2 pole permit.

The only requirement is that the line needs to be anchored to a “non moving” object (stake, tree, rock, etc.). There is no restriction on how it is anchored, so I am guessing that a yo yo would not fall outside the restrictions.

**You also have to have your setline tagged with your name and address and license number. You also have to remain within a 100 yards of it while using it. No sweat. **

I have forwarded a link to this thread to DWR personnel for their review. Hopefully we can get some direct clarifaction on this and other questions.

9

:sunglasses:There would definitely have to be restrictions on the use of live bait. My suggestion would be that you could only use live bait in the waters from which it came…like redsides or chubs from Scofield or Strawberry. That regulation is already in place for crawdads.

Where the problems would occur would be transporting live chubs or shiners to use in lakes where they do not already exist and where they could create problems. We especially do not need Nevada anglers bringing more shiners from Las Vegas to “plant” our Utah trout lakes.

**I also would like to see being able to use live white bass, bluegills or green sunfish (or perch) in lakes where they exist naturally. Those species typically constitute a big part of the forage base. Using some of them for cut bait is legal in some lakes, but who cares about sacrificing a puny perch to catch a big brown, or walleye or catfish? **

**Keep the same restrictions in Pineview. Tigers need all the help they can get. **

10

I would like to see them remove the limit on species that are in lakes where they were introduced illegally. SMB at Grantsville, for example. I am a bass fisherman. I strongly believe in catch and release. That being said, they need to figure a way to allow for LMB and SMB to be weighed for state record purposes.

11

:sunglasses:That is one of the areas that current regulations have made violators of some bassers. There are already cases where guys have put fish in livewells and held them until somebody else could show up to witness a measure and weigh session. That is a violation. “Immediate Release” is pretty clear.

I once proposed that an angler should be allowed to keep one fish over 22"…for a skin mount or for bragging rights or record certification…or whatever. We can’t have it all one way and not step on somebody’s fishing boots somehow. It’s a tough call. We want to keep the big mamas in the gene pool, but other anglers should also have the right to keep a big ol’ biggun if they want to.

I can hear the screams starting from the bassin’ contingent.

12

I’m going to give more thought to some of these proposals, but right off the bat, I can tell you that I’m strongly opposed to using live bait.
**
There are way too many species that have been introduced to waters that have had a negative on the sport fishing.
**

13

Just a couple here.

1 More and better paid CO’s
2 More consistency on the Bass regs. I think it needs to be a state wide slot limit on all Bass. Like was mentioned 1 SMB over 22 or 24 can be kept.
3 Close Linwood during the spawn.
4 A little more consistency with the perch.

14

just a comment on the walleye over 21" the only lake in utah I have caught more than one walleye over 21" is utah lake. As to catching more than 1 over 21" It only happened once and I have never been able to repeat the results, but 2 years ago while night fishing for channels I caught 18 walleye with 8 of them being over 21 inches. Once again I don’t think that will ever happen again but I know it did for me once. Also that same year I ran into a guy unloading his boat and he had at least 5 walleye over 21 inches on a stringer and had been bragging about catching them just like that every day for the past week. As to the bass regulations I am tempted to say I am for a universal size limit, but different lakes have different baitfish and gamefish that the bass compete with and I believe haveing individual lake restrictions is taylored to that. As to the perch I think different lake restrictions is OK, but those restrictions need to be able to be adjusted based on numbers more easily (as we have al seen in the case of yuba). anyway this is turning into a novel so I will stop there.
Jed Burton
p.s. I would love to be able to jug fish for cats at utah lake.

15

Ok, I’ll nibble on this.

  1. Bass management; I do NOT favor standardized bass regulations done for “simplicity” of the rules. The current trout regulations are far more complex than bass regs and I don’t hear anyone complaining about those being “too hard to understand”. Manage each bass fishery based on the biology and the conditions.

With that said I do favor changing Deer Creek back to general bass regulations, which hopefully would encourage harvest and help improve the forage situation there. Please leave Jordanelle and Utah lake as they are regulations wise. (with one possible exception)

Re:
I once proposed that an angler should be allowed to keep one fish over 22"…for a skin mount or for bragging rights or record certification…or whatever. We can’t have it all one way and not step on somebody’s fishing boots somehow. It’s a tough call. We want to keep the big mamas in the gene pool, but other anglers should also have the right to keep a big ol’ biggun if they want to.

I can hear the screams starting from the bassin’ contingent.

I agree with this change. The standard does need to be set high though. First off, how often is a 22+ smallie really caught? I consider myself a capable Jordanelle angler and I have never caught one over 22 inches. Second, most good bassers, upon catching one like this would put her in the livewell, take it in to the dock, weigh it, photograph it and then let it go. So I think the true harvest would be very low with such a regulation. The clubs could pay for a certified scale to be present at the marina. If by some miracle a power bait chucking tangler manages to catch one of these trophies, then more power to him.

  1. Perch limits: Jordanelle 20 fish, Pineview 20 fish. There does not seem to be any need to heavily harvest the perch from these fisheries any more. Perch are a key forage species in each of these fisheries.

  2. Live bait: I do not favor any changes to the current regs. This state has too bad of a track record with bucket biology to justify making it any easier for the dimwits to move fish from one body of water to another.

16

to prevent anyone from being offended, I’ll preface my response with the commonly used: This is only my opinion.

To add credibilty: I’m a professional

  1. Bass management. I think our bass waters should be managed on a case by case basis. If multiple waters have similar needs, then by all means use similar regulations. I don’t believe that stocking has historically been a problem. I think the UDWR has utilized natures best hatcheries in rearing fish for areas that need some stocking. Typically bass in Utah simply need a start. Once started, they manage fine on their own. A hatchery is being developed for supplemental stockings in areas that need it.

  2. Perch. who cares. perch are bait.

  3. Walleye. Mandatory catch and kill. Get rid of 'em.

  4. I agree 100% with Tubedude on #4. See his comments to see how i feel.

  5. Trout. More native trout restoration where applicable. Case by case management for needs on specific waters. Change Strawberry regulations to match with those of Panguitch Lake.

  6. Catfish. Juglines? I can see it now. Water skiers will be trying to ski through a “moving” course. Personally, I think this simply opens up opportunity for additional trash at Utah Lake. How many floating jugs will be left behind?

  7. Carp. Corn. I think the biggest issue with corn is just the litter. I don’t think we need to start allowing people to dump cans of corn all over Utah Lake. But, is this really an issue?

  8. Crappie. Crappy. Why? Don’t they directly compete with bass and take up precious biomass?

  9. Bluegill and Sunfish. Crappy. see Crappie.

  10. Northern Pike. Big “NO” for me. Similar to Walleye. They are difficult to control and can easily ruin fisheries. I personally don’t care to fish for stunted pike. There aren’t many places in Utah where pike wouldn’t stunt if they were established. There are no natural controls to limit their numbers. At least Yuba has water issues to somewhat keep them in check. but not very well…

  11. Tiger Musky. Perfect alternative to Pike! Hopefully the DWR can get their stuff together and start raising them. As for stricter regulations – I’m against them. I’d rather see people keeping 40" fish than having those fish die of old age.

  12. Burbot. Mandatory catch and kill

  13. Multi-pole tipups? I think a two pole permit is sufficient. Do we really need to fish with more?

  14. Anything else? Yes – I like the mandatory catch and kill regulations on waters with illegally introduced species. I think this needs to be broadened.

  15. One more thing – Tubedude for mayor!

17

Ok I have a few opinions on things that could be diffrent.

Ok first subject I will touch is bass small or large mouth. Bass out here do need to have a state wide regulation set up. Due to the waters are colder for one so your bass aren’t goin to get as big as fast it will take them longer to grow. The second reason is your bigger bass are your breeders. You don’t want to take the ones that are making the poplulation of fish grow. Your smaller bass usually don’t spawn as well as your larger ones. If your worried about the bass eating all your trout out here now that is a joke also in my opinion. For one reason your bass populations are not big enought to fully affect your trout like the carp will. If you want to do the state record thing it is as easy as weighing and messearing for a picture and then date and time it with what body of water it was on.

Ok the second subject I will touch is jugging. Jugging for cats I am highly against I seen more dead cats from jugging due to jugs getting away than I care to talk about. Plus to many young and I seen older folks do it also. Leavin the jugs lay around and litter up an area. Plus where is the sport of goin up catchin the jug. Plus I seen fights happen over people sayin it is his or her jug and it get way out of hand.

My third subject will be the two pole permits. I think you buy a license you should be able to use two rods no more no less. For what is the use of buyin a permit for it other than the DWR to make money which they already make a killing off of licenses alone and then the state park fee ontop of it like Willard and Utah Lake which that money still goes to the state and the DWR. For what is the true harm in usin two rods to fish I see none myself.

My fourth subject is live minnow and crawfish use. I agree it should be limitied to the bait fish and crawfish comin out of that body of water you are fishing. For other than enterducing another speices to another body of water you have to worry about desease.

Ok my fifth will be the walleye thing which i won’t coment much on. I only caught 3 walleye here in my whole 6 years of bein here and all where on accident. They all were under 20" so I don’t know what to say really.

My sixth thing will be the corn. I don’t see the harm in corn being used for carp at all. As long as it is not on a trout water of any sort. Personally I am tired of all the carp I run into while fishing for any spieces I usually hook into more carp. When I do I usually will use that carp as cut bait myself for cats.

My seventh topic will be perch, blue gill, and crapie limits. Each one should have a limit for they can also kill a fishing area. To many will eat the offspring of all spieces. But to few alot of spieces won’t get as big for like your bass, walleye, muskie, pike, cats, wippers, and some of your trout use these fish as a high source of food. But it should very from body size of water and spieces of fish in it.

My eigth topic will be trout. The limits should very from body of water to body of water. Due to the size of that body of water and not each body has the same spieces in it. Plus if there is the same spieces in one body from another the numbers may be diffrent.

My ninteh and final topic I will touch is Community Ponds. I am sorry I feel them ponds are and should be for young youth of up to the age of 9 or 10 to start to learn about fishing and get into fishing. Cause where is the fun in going out on a picnick and watching a young one fishing in what is basicly a big mud puddle do to the older people who know how to fish clean it out. Pre teens to us adults should be fishing the bigger bodies of water I feel for one. For two the limits at the ponds should be enforced some way some how. Plus when that pond is being stocked they should shut it down for a week from fishing. To give the fish a time to addapt.

I am sorry if I stepped on to many toes and hurt some feelings with my views on this stuff but it is views I fully look at as a fishermen. It is also the way I was brought up and also the way I seen lots of places do it.

18

i would like to see the DWR end the war on chub, and start a new war on carp! #1 water wrecker in utah!

i would also like to see waters restored somewhat after one of there wrecking crue’s come through..

perch managment? is that posable?

walleye managment? same as above?

as much as i love to fish for pike. NO i would not like to see it unleched in any other waters than it is in now.. to easy for them to get out of hand! tiger musky would be a better choice..

would realy like to see 2 pole and 2 tip up’s use on yuba.. maybe some other waters as well.

finley more tiger trout for E-lake!

19

As a manager of one of the Community Ponds, I would like to see a change on the fish limits at community ponds.
A 4 fish total limit, with only 2 being Trout or Catfish,
would go a long way in keeping fish in these ponds.
In the 3 years that Meadow Creek Pond has been open,
there has been a large increase in angler hours and in fish being taken from the pond.
There are only so many fish available for stocking in community ponds, so the fish must last longer between stockings.
Reducing the daily limit to 2 Catfish and 2 Trout is one way to kepp more fish in the ponds for a longer time.
This only works when anglers are honest about their limits taken from the ponds, so inforcement may be a part of the lower limits working.
Local law enforcement agencies have the right to enforce fishing regulations on community ponds and we need their support as much as we need the support of DWR CO’s for our community ponds.

20

"The only requirement is that the line needs to be anchored to a “non moving” object (stake, tree, rock, etc.). There is no restriction on how it is anchored, so I am guessing that a yo yo would not fall outside the restrictions.

You also have to have your setline tagged with your name and address and license number. You also have to remain within a 100 yards of it while using it. No sweat. "

Ok so what would happen if you used a setline at yuba for ice fishing? Only a 10 perch limit but say your caught 15 on your setline…and you cant throw any back…you follow the law and you could end up breaking it at the same time…[crazy][sly]

FF462