I got this letter in the mail today from the DWR that I thought I would pass along, as it may be of interest.
"The Division of Wildlife resources(DWR) and the June Sucker recovery Implementation Program (JSRIP) invite you to attend a public meeting on Thursday, September 18, 2008, from 6:00 to 8:30 PM at Springville Jr. High School, 165 S. 700 East, Springville, Utah. The meeting is held to kickoff the Utah Lake Fish Forum, a stakeholder involvement process that will assist DWR to develop a successful Utah Lake fishery while supporting the recovery of June sucker, an endangered fish that is endemic to Utah lake.
As you may know, the JSRIP has been systematically approaching carp removal for a number of years and is now in beginning stages of a one-year trial to determine the feasibility of removing 5 million pounds of carp. This activity provides an opportunity for the division and the Recovery program to work with stakeholders through the Utah lake Fish Forum process to proactively manage the Utah Lake fish community through regulations, and perhaps active removal of unwanted species in addition to carp.
Following the public meeting on September 18, the Utah Lake Fish Forum will begin to meet on a monthly basis through at least May 2009. Members of the Utah Lake Fish Forum include representatives from the angling community, environmental organizations, and other special interest groups. The public is also invited to attend these meetings.
We realize this is an important endeavor and value the perspectives and knowledge members of the Utah Lake Fish Forum and the general public will bring to the process. The following is the proposed agenda for the public meeting on September 18.
Meeting purpose and Utah Lake Fish Forum overview.
June Sucker Recovery Implementation Program and Endangered Species overview.
Shallow lake ecology overview.
Carp research results.
June sucker stocking efforts.
Food web analysis.
Utah lake creel survey.
Fish management tools.
Conclusion and next steps.
Question and answer period.
We hope that you can join us for this meeting. For more information about the recovery Program or the Utah Lake Fish Forum visit www.junesuckerrecovery.org. "
It sounds like regulation changes are being considered for game species. It will be interesting also to hear more about what “perhaps active removal of unwanted species in addition to carp” really means.
I believe you are correct in your reply. Seems strange to me that ‘the powers that be’ care more about saving a species of fish than saving the lake itself (read this).
I have no doubt that when this whole ordeal is done that they may have a hold on the carp population because of numbers captured, there will be hope for the june sucker, all praise the the june sucker [crazy]. BUT WHY? This is a lake that has been contaminated for decades, PCB’s are just a start-who knows what lies beneath the muck let alone what washes in from the high mountain streams which used to be mined for gold and the amounts of pollutants from rains that they gather.
This is also interesting, article.
I see the infamous june sucker as a lost cause. Breed them in other lakes where the predatory species are low in numbers, that is fine, but do not expect to wipe out an entire lake of a certain species in hope that they (the june suckers) will survive. “Give me immortality or give me death”-David Ossman, Utah Lake is long gone as a june sucker habitat. Just my two cents, maybe I’ll forward this to our congress…
You are right on about Utah being a repository for toxic waste. Do members realize what is being promoted when they see those cheesy TV ads for Energy Solutions? (Let alone when we go to a Jazz game at Energy Solutions arena). Utah lake is obviously not without problems. What I might say though is that through the Endangered Species Act, money for clean-up of Utah lake can be made available that would not otherwise be possible. The municipalities around the lake sure don’t have it! It also bears commenting that in spite of issues with the water quality, (both real and perceived) the fish flesh have some of the lowest mercury levels in the state of waters tested so far. Former Utah Department of Health
It does appear from “reading between the lines” that the DWR and the Recovery program may be considering going after walleyes as well as carp. This action will no doubt cause outright hostility from some fishermen. As someone who is “pro June sucker”, but who also on occasion will successfully fish for 'eyes out there, I guess I need to ask myself if the finished product of the work there, (A healthier lake, fishery and ecosystem) is worth it. I would still say that it is. Also the fact that if the carp biomass is reduced, it will be replaced by something else. It won’t be with June suckers. It will be with game fish! it will be interesting to at least hear the DWR out about what they have in mind. I hope work permits me to attend.
Re: "Reducing all the carp will increase white bass, walleye, and catfish numbers – all of which are predators and threats to the June Sucker population.
Seems likely that IF they actually succeed at getting rid of the worst problem (carp), there is a high likelihood of going after the predators too."
All true what you said, but the reason carp removal would conceivably work in sucker restoration is that the carp tear up the aquatic vegetation. If good aquatic vegetation/grasses return, that will be where panfish, LMB, and WB will be in good numbers. Unless the DWR is preparing to poison the entire lake, (not physically possible) it would have to drag nets through the very habitat they fought so hard to restore, to get at a lot of these other predators. (also not going to happen). Walleyes may be more susceptible to netting due to their spawning patterns and maybe the scientists figure they can at least knock back one very major predator some.(conjecture on my part)
I asked the lead biologist from JSIRP 4 years ago about June Sucker predation from the game species. He stated then that he didn’t feel that it was a huge problem and in his view, if the habitat could be restored, a healthy ecosystem would need an apex predator. Perhaps, subsequent research they have done has changed their viewpoint. I guess we shall see.
IMNSHO unless they are either prepared to spend millions of dollars every year, or they find a way to biologically control the carp, removing a substantial number of them in a short period of time will be of no long-term value. Those carp reproduce so quickly that maintaining lower numbers is an almost-insurmountable task. I would propose that they bite the bullet and spend the money to create a separate body of water within Utah Lake where the June Suckers could be protected and flourish, or better yet plant then in several other bodies of water and allow them to become numerous enough in those bodies of water that they are no longer endangered. I have no problem with them saving the June Suckers, but why do they have to try to save them in Utah Lake?
Re:“I would propose that they bite the bullet and spend the money to create a separate body of water within Utah Lake where the June Suckers could be protected and flourish”
In that same conversation with the JSRIP biologist I referred to earlier, he showed me just such a plan. Whether the program will ultimately resort to that will be interesting to watch. It probably will be many years though before anything like that will be completed.
They need to just drain utah lake and let the toxins burn off or just dredge the entire lake .Probably take a few years but then again how long did it take to mess the lake up. [frown]
They need to just drain utah lake and let the toxins burn off or just dredge the entire lake .Probably take a few years but then again how long did it take to mess the lake up. [frown]
WHO is “THEY”…and where are “THEY” supposed to get the huge amount of money it would take to do either of those things?
A lot of things sound good in principle when it comes down to reality they are just not feasible or affordable.
this “recovery” program is already costing US about 50plus MILLION bucks, a drop in the bucket to the 160plus for the humpy/horny/sucker program in the Basin. You also have to remember that the imperative [/b]of the Endangered Species Act requires[/b] that everything possible be done to recover the listed species. That means that as they get further and further into the plan, and there are more and more problems, the solutions will become more and more dramatic, draconian, and will step on the toes of a lot of people, us fisherman being the least of those affected. How would you like to be a farmer upstream who is told that because of the point source pollution due to your agriculture, you can no longer fertilize your crops, you will have to plant certain crops, till your land a certain way, and on and on. Due to the need of the identified species, your water will be taken because it is needed to provide habitat for said recovery. It will go on and on. The cost will escalate, and the restrictions on the users will escalate till the goal is achieved, to hell with the consequences.
That is the part that they don’t tell you. By the way, Junies are a desert for all the game fish in Utah lake. MMMMMM Tasty !!! Tell me the ESA is not a giant ripoff !!!
Whenever you have beaurocrats who have built their own little empires…and who don’t want to lose their positions…it is amazing how much fluff and stupidity they can come up with in the guise of creativity and efficiency.
“but why do they have to try to save them in Utah Lake?”
It has to be Utah Lake because that is their native habitat. Keeping them in captivity, or in a separate body of water, does not satisfy the definition of recovery under the ESA. According to the ESA, it has to be their native range (i.e. Utah Lake).
They actually already have planted and bred tons of them in another reservoir above Salt Lake, I think it’s called Red Butte Reservoir.
“but why do they have to try to save them in Utah Lake?”
It has to be Utah Lake because that is their native habitat. Keeping them in captivity, or in a separate body of water, does not satisfy the definition of recovery under the ESA. According to the ESA, it has to be their native range (i.e. Utah Lake).
They actually already have planted and bred tons of them in another reservoir above Salt Lake, I think it’s called Red Butte Reservoir.
I don’t doubt what you are saying, but IMNSHO just because man can create rules and laws doesn’t mean that they make any sense.
surely you jest, the Government doing something that makes sense !! this is not, " let’s do what makes sense", this is " my way right or wrong, or even totally wrong". Not how to hold down the cost, but how to spend as much of the taxpayer’s money for the least amount of return.
I have not been in support of this attempt to “renovate” Utah lake for June suckers from the start. I was certain from the start that the intention was not only removal of carp but also non-native predatory and competition species…ie…the game fish we enjoy catching in Utah Lake. I honestly hope that removal of the carp is not going to be successful and will take up decades if not forever so that it will stall efforts to move to removing game fish predators. As little as I care for carp, Utah lake is a GREAT repository not for waste but for game fish. There are huge sustainable populations of bluegill and crappie emerging as well as the traditional white bass, walleye, cats and lmb. This year has seen a year class of white bass so abundant, that I have not recalled a more tremendous year class for over 15 years. I certainly do not and will never support more human disruption in Utah lake’s ecosystem other that strict measures to ensure water quality and thwart pollution. Spend the money that is going to be wasted in removing carp on pumping up some of the PCB loaded sediments is more sensible to me. Even though that may be just as impossible as removing the carp, it won’t lead to targeting and eventually removing gamefish.
Good to hear about the white bass yearling class. I really had a lot of fun ice fishing it last year. didn’t get into the whities, but tons of 'gils and had a blast with them. I want to get into the whities and crappies more this year too. Should be a fun season up ahead as the water levels are still great.
BUT…in the meantime, I’m gonna make another kittie trip or two out there first…
They need to just drain utah lake and let the toxins burn off or just dredge the entire lake .Probably take a few years but then again how long did it take to mess the lake up. [frown]