I was thinking mostly about the marshes. I haven’t noticed any reduction in the bugs at Utah Lake but studies done by the U of U support the reduction of waterfowl on the marshes, due to the carp.
Any where around the shore on Utah Lake it can be hard to breathe at times with out inhaling a few midges.
I am guessing that the biggest impact on waterfowl would be the eradication of the nutritious forms of water weeds utilized by many diving birds. As most of us know, carp eat the top growth and dig up the roots…rooting them out. That was one of the biggest causes of decline of the June suckers. Reduced cover for the young and also destruction of the weedbeds in which many aquatic insects grew.
But, Utah Lake is not completely without aquatic growth. During the past three years of higher water, there is a species of thick aquatic growth that totally takes over much of the shallows around the lake over mud bottom. It grows clear to the top of the water in depths up to 7 feet deep and makes it impossible for anglers to fish it. There are some spots I simply will not even launch my float tube until after the late fall decline in the weed growth. See attached pics. Once it takes over an area I can’t even kick through it with my tube.
Not sure what benefit (if any) this is to fish fry recruitment, but the carp seem to enjoy it . We see huge carp clumps laying on top of this stuff at times.
We need to have a monthly or by monthly 1 day contest on Utah lake to see who can harvest the most Carp. Have prizes for the biggest carp as well. All though I know it really would not help the situation it could be kind a fun.
OR
IF there are 100,000 anglers in Salt Lake and Utah Co’s and we all go down to UL once a week and catch 10 fish we can get rid of the carp in like 8 weeks .. hehehe
OR
Since Bull sharks have been known to live in freshwater lets transplant some of those, they can take care of the carp and a few of the power squadron as well.
ya ya I know wish full thinking. But hey it is an idea.
Majja
Tube dude you are right about carp causing a decrease in the aquatic vegetation utilized by waterfowl. The state will drain some of the waterfowl refuge impoundments every year and treat them with rotenone. The carp stir up the mud. The dirtier the water the less photosynthesis and so less feed for the birds. It is amazing how fast the carp come back. gshorthair
How about this for a thought? Let’s have some of the technogeeks and gamers on the board collaborate to convert Utah Lake to one giant computer game…“INTERGALLACTIC CARP KILLERS” or something like that. Wire the whole lake with lazer zappers and viewers. Whenever a carp comes into range, whoever has control of that zapper makes the shot and scores some points…variable by carp size, degree of destruction, etc. Deductions for killing good species (like June suckers).
Too costly you say? What kind of budget do they have right now for carp eradication? And, what makes anybody think that their plans would work any better?
Who can be the first to get to level 10?
Ok wow… there must be some MONSTER carp in Utah lake… like 2,000 lb’ers … ROFL!
For kicks (or boredom at work) I fired up google earth and looked up Utah lake. Man what an ugly looking lake from space… but what caught my eye is some really wierd patterns on the water. W T H Made those??? Looks way way too big to be a boat. It doesnt look like a “wake” either (you can see wakes clearly behind boats on Deer Creek) Very odd to say the least!
If you have google earth enter these coords:
40°15’10.19"N
111°45’39.90"W
Odd dont you think?
-DallanC
I would be down for playing that. Or here is another name for you World of Carpcraft. I am still fond of adding bull sharks cause after they eat the carp they will be fun to catch.
The fish history table TubeDude posted starts in 1875. It should be noted that the cutthroat population had already taken a significant beating by then. Mr. Peter Madsen, a commercial fisherman, said that one haul in 1864 weighed from 4290 to 4560 lbs compared to the same haul in 1872 which averaged approximately 540 lbs. In 1889, a seine haul of 120 lbs was considered good. Note also that the first scientifically described Bonneville Cutthroat was captured from Utah Lake in the late 1850s. Can you say “over-harvest”?
I have seen those “trails” on utah lake Google Earth. I am pretty sure they are boats.. I think that photo was taken when the water was pretty calm. UL Will go pretty green if it has successive calm days.
With that.. the boats will come through and “Cut” the green on top of the water. Follow most of the trails.. you’ll eventually catch up to the boat.
Wunder where the non-native carp came from that were planted in 1886?? Isn’t the carp native to Europe? or maybe China? Are carp native to any part of the US?
The 1886 date conjures up a “visual” of a covered wagon trudging across the Kansas prairie with a tub full of carp destined for Utah valley. Okay, Okay… I know, they could have arrived by train too.
Any BFT carpologists who can share a little knowledge here?? Just wonderin’.
[reply]
However, it is a biological fact that there is a limited amount of space and food resources in any body of water. Whenever one species (like carp) becomes so dominant they DO affect the whole scheme of things…both directly and indirectly.
Indeed, small white bass are probably the number one source of protein for walleyes and big catfish. Whenever the white bass do not have a good recruitment, all of the top predators suffer too. [/reply]
Ok from what I read up and stuff on the carp out here. They are German Grass Carp which is native to the European area. How they gout out this far in that time frame still has me at alose. But the reason they were brought out here was to eat the algy out of the drinkin waters to attempt to keep them cleaner and able to drink. Which in alot of the resevors out here which most of us cuss them where we fish they were planted in to for the same reason basicly. But due to them bein a garbage fish and of no real use to us they are basicly takin over. I don’t think there is very many of the asian coy which is also in the carp family and was used for along the same lines. Then there is your common gold fish which is also a carp which many anglers love to use as bait in surtain states out east which there were those careless ones that dumped them into the river or lake they were fishing. If you want some more information on it I can call a friend that works at a fish hatchery where i grew up just let me know and I can try to get you some more info.
The common carp is native to parts of Asia and Europe. All carp in the US are descendants of fish imported from Germany. Utah’s carp were likely transported in water filled barrels, as very small fry. And, they were likely taken from ponds or lakes in the midwestern US, rather than being brought all the way from Europe. Like most settlers in the west, they migrated slowly from the east coast to the midwest before making the long trek westward.
The wagon trains were from the 1840’s and 50’s. The Intercontinental Railroad was completed in 1869…15 years before the carp arrived…so it is reasonable to assume they rode on a train. That is how most new species of fish were transplanted in those days…as fertilized eggs or fry.
Although Brigham Young died in 1877, I have always suspected he was a “bucket Biologist”.
**
lol
**
I’m sure there is some logic behind that statement. Does it have anything to do with all the wives and kids?
Our motto at BYU used to be “I don’t care how you Brigham, just Brigham Young.”
Apologies to our more faithful LDS members.
No religious inference intended, just looking for someone to blame for the carp infestation.
**
At my age, I am not required to have logic related to my statements.
**
It probably doesn’t make much sense to complain about carp. They are like mosquitoes, very prolific, bothersome, and something that just have to be tolerated.
**
They do have one thing over mosquitoes, it’s possible that carp can be eaten.
**
**
According to all the reports I’ve read on Carp planting it was done by the Federal Government in the 1880’s all over the US for a new source of food. Utah got some of those plants. One female carp can spawn up to 2 million eggs and the fry grow to beyond predation size, about 2 pounds, in 2 years. I wondered why the Utah Lake Commission seemed to ignore the small carp but it is because once there is a large adult population few fry survive to get bigger. If there is a “crash” in the adult population then fry quickly replace them.
It is too bad they aren’t better table fare although millions of pounds of carp are harvested in the US, including Utah Lake, for human consumption in the US. I understand pickling softens the bones and makes the flesh more palatable. There are a lot of carp recipes on the internet.