I’m thinking about heading up to the berry this week. I have access to a 4 wheeler and am curious if it would be worth taking up. I plan on fishing about a mile away from the marina. I expect to park at the marina and access the ice from the ramp. For those of you who have been there in the last week or so, will I have any issues with deep snow, slush or weak ice? Thanks for your advice.
Brady
I know of one BFTer that fell through the ice on saturday just out from the ramp. I don’t think I’d take a machine across just yet…but that is just me.
You would be really taking a risk with a 4 wheeler, i’m guessing poor ice and slush, you would be in for an adventure that’s for sure. Keep in mind the fact of weight distribution differences between 4 wheelers and snowmobiles. I would not take either for a while. With this warm weather it could be several more weeks before it would be safe…
I’d say only one week to have safe ice for machines. That hole the berry sits in is one cold beast! Only take 31 degrees to make ice, and I’ll bet it only gets above that for a couple hours at most up there. She’ll be making lots of ice, but the snow will insulate areas and make them unsafe, especially around springs and that pressure ridge that always forms off of Haws Point. Sleds are safer on the ice than one human is…wheelers are a different story.
This morning while we were walking away from The Strawberry Marina two guys passed us. One was pulling a sled behind a snowmobile and the other guy was pulling a sled behind a 4 wheeler. About 11:00 AM I called BMURR (Brady) to let him know that I had seen someone on a 4 wheeler drive across the ice only to find out that it was Brady and his friend who were on the snowmobile and the 4 wheeler. He originally was planning on coming up in the afternoon (he was the one I was going to do an overnighter with) and had a change in plans.
My wheeler weighs 500 lbs. With me on it it weighs 730 lbs. If I displace the weight over 4 tires which surface area on one tire is more than the surface area of my boot, that would be 182.5 lbs sitting on each tire. That is less weight than me walking across the ice. With each step, I apply 230 plus lbs under foot. Think about it … they are actually safer than you are giving them credit.
One thing the atv crowd always forgets is everything is froze up nice in the mornings, but can thaw in the mornings / afternoons making it impossible to return. Seems there is always atvs stuck trying to come back in the afternoons when it gets soft.
Snowmobiles > atvs for ice fishing.
-DallanC
I was wondering where they where headed. Where they only in the bay or did the go across the main body of the lake?
They went across the bay by the campgrounds.
I use both, atv and snowmobile. When the slush is deep, both get stuck. The snowmobile goes faster and in deep snow over 8 inches, it definetly gets around better. Under 8 inches of snow and limited slush, the atv does well. I like the atv because it can be used summer, fall, winter and spring. The snowmobile can only be used when there is enough snow to get around on. Although I have heard of them going across water once the speed gets up.
I think the one thing that everyone is forgetting is that a snowmobile can cross water… I dont advise a 4 wheeler on any ice this time of the year… a snow mobile can get out of trouble and a 4wheeler cant.
I use both, atv and snowmobile.
Kevin, where was this snowmobile when we fished Electric Lake?[;)]
My wheeler weighs 500 lbs. With me on it it weighs 730 lbs. If I displace the weight over 4 tires which surface area on one tire is more than the surface area of my boot, that would be 182.5 lbs sitting on each tire. That is less weight than me walking across the ice. With each step, I apply 230 plus lbs under foot. Think about it … they are actually safer than you are giving them credit.
That kind of logic might get you killed.
You’ve approached this as a point of singularity, rather than as an aggregate. You’ve not taken into consideration that while, yes, 182 < 230, you are ultimately putting a 730# strain on the ice in a very small space where weight dispersions/distributions overlap. What’s the sq footage of a 4 wheeler? 20’ max?
4 feet by 5 feet. That’s a mighty small footprint.
Toyguy… Using your logic, what is the foot print of a snow mobile, 2 feet by 8 ft (16 sq ft)? About the same footprint as the ATV only smaller. So what is the logic behind your thinking? Looks to me like both have the same death wish by your statement.
I dis-agree. You have to use the points of contact with the ice for your weight load calculations. I wish I could use a 4x5 area. The PSI would be even lower. An area of 20 square feet to distribute even 1000 lbs would be extremely minimal compared to a 4 inch wide by 1 foot long (boot size) point of weight distribution for 230 lbs. (which occurs with each step when walking and is less when standing still on both feet) That is why a snow mobile will run across water. More point of contact area to distribute the weight. Don’t believe me? Drive an ATV over your foot sometime and feel the difference. True, you have a soft tire that helps distribute the weight more evenly as it wraps around your foot and even puts some on the ground where the tire overlaps your foot, but that further exemplifies my point. If it were a hard tire (steel) there would be no additional weight distribution over the entire foot or ground, just the highest point on the foot which would have to absorb the entire weight of the atv being carried by that tire and then it would be transferred into the entire foot and onto the ground. No different than point loads for footing calculations and dead and live weight load calculations when figuring roof and floor loads. Now, I admit that I do not understand ice strength and perhaps weight is distributed differently over ice than dirt, but I would think they work the same. Thinner ice certainly has different PSI load bearing strength than thicker ice, but, it definately is still the point load and how it distributes the weight that makes or breaks its ability to hold weight.
Kent… I didn’t have one available the time we went to Electric Lake and have only gotten the atv 3 years ago. However, I would have not taken either onto the lake that day as the access was not that good and the slush was in my opinion too deep for either type of machine. (At least where we fished, it may have been less on other parts of the lake as there were 2 snowmobiles there that day and they got around well)
ATV’s or Snow Mobiles for ice fishing have their place. Anything is better than walking and pulling a sleigh. If I owned a snowmobile, it would always go onto the ice in lieu of an ATV, but since I could only afford 1 type of machine, the atv won out because of its diversity.
You have to use the points of contact with the ice for your weight load calculations.
You are easy to debate. You quickly make it very clear where our differences in assumptions are. You are using point load only whereas I’m using radial weight dispersion. It’s intuitively difficult for me to believe that weight stress beyond the point of contact is ignored, BUT, I’m just coming from a strict math standpoint, whereas you appear to have experience with load dispersion.
So absolute weight won’t matter; just distributed weight over the number of points of contact? You may be right. In your wheeler, you’ve got 182 at the corners. Since you initially have less weight than the footprint of 230, why would I assume that radial weight would break the ice? Any radial weight ‘Pressure” is going to have to be less than the 182, by definition.
Thinner ice certainly has different PSI load bearing strength than thicker ice, but, it definately is still the point load and how it distributes the weight that makes or breaks its ability to hold weight.
Right. Seems like you are pointing out that ice thickness is a different debate. Obviously, there comes a point where ice tensile strength exceeds load bearing, and this discussion becomes moot. What we’re talking about is how the load bearing weight is calculated, in order to come up with the number used to compare against the tensile strength of the ice.
Thx for your POV, looks like I’ve got a new reading assignment this week…
Kent… I didn’t have one available the time we went to Electric Lake and have only gotten the atv 3 years ago. However, I would have not taken either onto the lake that day as the access was not that good and the slush was in my opinion too deep for either type of machine. (At least where we fished, it may have been less on other parts of the lake as there were 2 snowmobiles there that day and they got around well)
Kevin, I was just funnin’ ya – I already knew the answer. That day we fished Electric Lake one would have had a top-end snowmobile to get around in those conditions. My right arm is still 2 inches longer than my left from foollishing holding the rope while riding on the back of the snowmobile to drag my shack up and across that hill.[:/] That was one great day and it was the impetus for me purchasing my own Vexilar which I regularly use (used it last on New Year’s Day). It has been too long since we fished together.