Slot Limits

:sunglasses:It has been awhile since we had a good old fashioned “discussion” about slot limits. Like 'em or hate 'em? Still too early to tell what they are going to do for Scofield, but most of us are optimistic that we will see more and bigger trout in the future. That 8 trout limit put a lot of pressure on Scofield and visibly affected the harvest at the end of last year. Never saw it so slow.


Anybody who has some “history” with Strawberry has to appreciate what the slot regulations have done for that fishery. Not many fish above or below the slot range, but plenty of slotters to keep everybody happy with the catchin’. There are ups and downs, but once you get a handle on that lake it is one of the most productive trout ponds in the whole country.


One thing that contributes to the low numbers of fish over the slot is evolution and adaptation. It would seem that fish have become educated to the need for remaining below the 22 inch mark, to avoid going home with those who want to eat them. Here is photographic proof of how that works.


I do not fish strawberry due to the slot limit. I don’t like catching the same 20 3/4" fish over and over again. Also, if i drive that far i want something to put in my belly.
Way back when, we used to get a bunch of rainbows in the bay we fished. We don’t catch them in our spot anymore.

:sunglasses:I have not fished Strawberry since I moved back to Utah about five years ago. I too prefer rainbows and I don’t care how many wimpy rolling cutts you can catch in a day, it ain’t the same as one or two big rambunctious rainbows…fightwise.


I also like to keep a few for the table, but I have never liked ANY of the fish from Strawberry. Some of the 'bows are okay, but every cutt I have tried to eat from da Berry has tasted like decomposing water weeds. And, I would like to think I know a little bit about preparing and cooking fish by now.


Bottom line: There is no better place to go for a lot of trout…and some decent sized trout…if you are mostly C&R. But, if you fish for harder fighting fish and better eating fish, almost any other trout water is better.


One of the positives from the last year is the results from the DWR’s new rainbow planting program. They are planting fewer but larger rainbows…same poundage but fewer fish. The larger sizes seem to keep them from becoming instant cutt chow and this past year a lot more rainbows were showing up for all anglers. Let’s see how many survive past the first year and grow to the huge sizes the bows in the Berry are capable of. I know a lot more rainbows were harvested this year than in the past, but there are a lot more left over too.


My personal opinion is that the cutts have peaked, as far as sizes are concerned. Just like northerns planted to curb abundant trash fish, the cutts have worked too well to eliminate the redsides and are wiping out all the small chubs as fast as they are spawned…just like at Starvation. This has slowed the fantastic growth rates observed after the first couple of years of the slot regulations. Still some big fish and still some fat fish, but there are a lot more shorts and snakes showing up. The remaining chub population is running scared.


The good thing about the 'bows is that they are a lot more omnivorous in their feeding habits. They cruise the open water, feeding on zooplankton and also hit the shallows for crawdads and other aquatic invertebrates. They also munch minnows but not as exclusively as the cutts. I suspect that DWR is phasing in more rainbows not only to increase the harvest potential, but to take up some of the slack when the cutts subside a bit…as they seem to be doing.


I personally am still not likely to been on Strawberry very often. I’d rather go a ways up the road for the wallies and perchies at Starvation.

**Strawberry serves a purpose and fullfills most fishermans **ambitions; catch a lot of fish. However, I guess I am one of the strange ones. Driving that far to catch the same size of cuthroats over and over does not really appeal to me. I know, there are big fish in there. However, for every big one there is many more “slot” fish.


**I think a slot on certain lakes are good. Strawberry is a great program; it keeps many fisherman off the other lakes. I have fished Strawberry about three or four times **
in the past 15 years. I don’t see that number going up in the near future.

I guess i am +3 … not a big slot fan. I get it and it’s purpose and I am cool with that.

My buds and I joke that the same 19" cut swims back and forth between holes collecting a meal of worms and sucker meat before moving on and allowing the next cut to step in [;)]

Now admittedly I am a warm water guy so I would like to see more time spent on those waters…

You know the DWR said they were planting the rainbows a little bigger this time so the cuts would not eat them?
so they are going to let them grow 3’? to 4 to 5" so the cut don’t eat as many ?
So if the cuts don’t eat the bigger fish,
then why do I catch them on 7 to 9" A/C plugs
I have caught 15" + cuts at the beery with the biger baits also, and up at the gorge I catch smaller rainbows all the time on the biger baits,
So what I’m saying is I think the slot limits is killing the fishery at the berry, yes we have a cut population but almost all are in the slot ?
the slot is to try to keep the chubs down, but we are getting more and more chubs again in the berry?
And we haven’t had a good rainbow fishery for years up there,
and that is because the cuts are eating the rainbow,
instead of the chubs I guess? / all I know is I don’t like fishing up there with the slot limit, when everything you catch is in the slot and has been for years?
The berry used to be a trophy fishery, that is why I don’t fish it anymore,
I think they should make it a catch and release for a few years, for everything in there, then go with some kind of slot after, also why don’t they stock it with browns or tigers to help with the chubs ???/ I guess I have no idea why they do what they do? I’m just a stupid fisherman [;)]
Also Scofeild will not see me again untill it is changed?

Just why thoughts [crazy]

No doubt about it, the slot has been successful at the Berry. If the trend toward catching “snaky” cutts continues I wouldn’t be surprised the see the ponderous & agonizingly slow DWR processes lower the upper size limit to increase harvest and give the chubbies a chance to rebound a bit. Now if only those processes will awaken on the perch at Yuba before another total crash.

Im in the same boat as TubeDude. I love strawberry, the lake is a scenic part of my drive. I always make sure to think about the times I spent before I found a very special place where the walleye are very hungry due to “Starvation”. Its worth the extra time.
I think all trout have something “fishy” about how they taste but the smaller the better for me.

I would rather eat the crawdads from strawberry than the trout Trout are just sport fish to me. Dont oppose slot laws as long as they have a good result over time.

I do think it might be a little different story if we were talking about a river system.

:sunglasses:**Hey Roger, I do not pretend to know everything that is behind decisions made by DWR. But, I do have several good friends and acquaintances within the Division and I have been able to sit in on some presentations with charts graphs and diagrams of what has occured with Strawberry over the years. **


In the olden days, Strawberry was a mishmash of species…several species of trout and lots of “rough fish”. Trout that survived the bigguns and outcompeted the chubs and other nontrout species sometimes grew BIG. That is what a lot of us like to remember. But, if we are honest, we have to admit that the bigguns were rare. Much more common for folks to take home a cooler full of planter bows, with few over 15 inches.


I was around during the first big poisoning project in the fall of '61. Tons of dead fish floating on the surface and an amazing variety. Surprising that any trout could live there.


I was living out of state when they joined Strawberry and Soldier Creek and did the second big mass poisoning. But, I closely followed the progress of the recovery. As expected, the lake exploded with rapid fish growth and great angler success…until the chubs came back. Chubs outcompete most trout for food resources and raid the nests of trout that spawn. Bad chubs.


The decision to heavily stock Bear Lake Strain cutts, and to establish a slot limit, was a well planned effort to put a hurtin’ on the minnows…both redsides and chubs. A positive side benefit was that it also produced some humongous cutts in a short period of time. Those under the 22 inch slot were plentiful and easy to catch. The big ones were not as common, but they made your day whenver you hung one.


The charts and graphs showed that before the slot limit, there were VERY FEW fish caught in Strawberry that were over 3 years old or longer than about 19". In the third year after the slot regulations were put into place, netting surveys showed remarkably high numbers of fish over 20 inches and an amazing number over 25 inches. The bigger ones had been almost nonexistent in previous netting surveys.


With the increased number of big ol’ meat eatin’ cutts, DWR had to rethink their rainbow and koke planting strategies. Instead of planting 4" fingerlings…CUTT CHOW…they had to plant larger rainbows to escape MOST of the bigger fish. As you have observed, even a 12 inch rainbow is not safe from the biggest fish in the lake. But, a lot more of them moved out to the open lake, fed well on zooplankton and grew larger fast enough to have a high survival rate.


Last year was the first year for mass planting of larger bows. If it continues, Strawberry should evolve into a much better rainbow fishery with less focus on the cutts. Right now, a rainbow is considered a prize, because of their relative rarity. But, for many trollers this last year the small bows were almost a pest. They won’t be pests this next year, now that they are getting some shoulders. And, the survivors from this year will be chunky 5 pounders by next year. I don’t know many serious fishermen who don’t get excited about catching numbers of 5 pound rainbows.


**There are still pockets where the chubs seem to be hanging in there, but overall the “minnow” population of Strawberry has plummeted. The cutts have done what they were supposed to do…almost too well. Us guys who like to use minnows used to be able to get several days worth of bait at Strawberry with one cast net throw near the marina. Now you have to really look to find enough minnows to make it worth setting a trap or throwing a cast net. **


Since the chubs have been knocked down a few pegs, there is no reason to plant tigers…other than as a diversity in the species available. I suspect that they would do okay, but are not needed to “bat cleanup”. Ditto for browns. Used to be a few bigguns come out of there every year. Still see one once in awhile. Also used to be some nice brookies in Strawberry. Haven’t heard of any for a long time.


How’s this for a BRIEF reply?

As always, a great read TD. What do people think about them changing the regs up there so it was legal to keep one or two in the slot for a year. You would think that the biologists would micromanage things instead of having a 5 or 10 year plan like it seems. Keeping one or two would take numbers downs some and let the remaining fish eat minnows and grow bigger right?

Also what strain of cutts were in the berry before. THe state record says it was caught by a Mrs. E Smith and that it weighed 26 pounds!! That is incredible… Were they hybrids back then like in Henreys? Sorry kind of off topic.

My personal opinion is that the cutts have peaked, as far as sizes are concerned. Just like northerns planted to curb abundant trash fish, the cutts have worked too well to eliminate the redsides and are wiping out all the small chubs as fast as they are spawned…just like at Starvation. This has slowed the fantastic growth rates observed after the first couple of years of the slot regulations. Still some big fish and still some fat fish, but there are a lot more shorts and snakes showing up. The remaining chub population is running scared.

I disagree 100%…one thing you have to remember with slot limits is that most of the fish are in the slot range BECAUSE they aren’t harvested. That means that those on the high-end of the slot range are harvested. If the cutt sizes have peaked, the limiting factor, in my opinion, is probably more related to harvest than it is lack of forage.

Also, from what I understand, population surveys at Strawberry have shown no decreases in sizes or health of cutthroat trout…

…in my opinion, growth rates of cutts and rainbows would be much better and average sizes of fish and fish health would be higher without any forage fish at all. Not coincidentally, the periods of highest fish growth in reservoirs like Strawberry are always those periods immediately following rotenone treatments. Why? Because the competition for available zooplankton is much lower and the availability of food is much higher when trout do not have to compete with chubs/minnows. Trout do much better without forage species…

…to me, Strawberry would be a much better fishery if there were no chubs/minnows in the reservoir at all. Average fish sizes and health would be higher, and the high-end true trophy trout would still be able to prey on kokanee.

As always, a great read TD. What do people think about them changing the regs up there so it was legal to keep one or two in the slot for a year. You would think that the biologists would micromanage things instead of having a 5 or 10 year plan like it seems. Keeping one or two would take numbers downs some and let the remaining fish eat minnows and grow bigger right?

:sunglasses:It is possible that allowing anglers to keep one fish inside the slot would reduce that prevalent size range and also reduce the ratio of predators to prey. Not sure what it would do to the overall balance. I leave that to the biologists.


To answer your other question, the state record cutt from the Strawberry of old was probably a pure strain Bonneville cutt. The Bear Lake cutts in Strawberry right now are a strain of Bonneville cutt, with some unique piscivorous habits.


Over time, most cutts can grow large if they have enough food. The oldtime cutts from Utah Lake routinely grew over 20 pounds. And, the Lahontan cutts from Pyramid Lake in Nevada were recorded at well over 40 pounds. But, the Utah Lake cutts were harvested to extinction and the Pyramid Lake cutts were both overharvested and their habitat destroyed by overuse of the water inflows into the lake…and lack of spawning area.

:sunglasses:Disagree all you want. But, your opinions are based upon theory…not observed conditions over the past two years. I suspect you have not fished Strawberry at all during that time.


Angler results have changed. Virtually all Strawberry “regulars”…who catch more fish than all of the amateurs combined…universally claim that the numbers have decreased and the average sizes and weights have decreased. Again, not all fish show this trend but many do. A lot more than three years ago when the minnow population first noticeably declined.


These same Berry pros also catch most of the truly large cutts, and most of them are returned to the water. Yes, there is a harvest factor among the larger fish, but there are just not as many reaching the upper limits of the slot.


And, the cutts may disagree with you on “being better off without forage species”. The Bear Lake cutts are still programmed to eat meat and are slow to revert to slurping “soup”. Perhaps they do not read the same things you do. At least they are a lot more prone to hit large lures than tiny lures or even small pieces of bait. But, the rainbows do.

I have never liked ANY of the fish from Strawberry. Some of the 'bows are okay, but every cutt I have tried to eat from da Berry has tasted like decomposing water weeds

Sorry this is a little off topic, but do you think the reason the table quality of Bonneville Cutts is so poor is because they are so carnivorous?

The good thing about the 'bows is that they are a lot more omnivorous in their feeding habits.

As I understand it, trout with brighly colored flesh become that way by feeding on a lot of invertabrates - not so much on other fish. And they seem to taste a lot better.

I know that’s how it tends to work with ducks. Duck species that eat fish are strong and nasty for eating, while their plant and bug eating cousins are much better for the table. Teal being the best in my opinion.

Any thoughts?

Hey TubeDude [;)]
I under stand what you are saying about the old days,
Plus back then it was over fished way over fish!!!
I don’t know the answer but I don’t think it is going to back fire, you can make anything look good on charts and diagrams, but what really occurs is something totally different, and the way people are talking it sound like no one knows what they are doing, just like the rainbows,
they should have know at they wouldn’t survive under those conditions, and as far as the rainbows go why not close down the limit on the bows so they have a chance to grow or put a slot limit on the bows, nothing under 16" and only 2 over and let them have a good start. for a couple of years,
Now that would be to simple, Damn we might not have to stock as many that way either, that would save the tax payer afew $$$$$$ also that would give the hatcherys
time to grow ?
Also there is alot more people out there fishing now days also, plus we have ice fishing now also and all year long season.
But I guess you can’t make everyone happy :slight_smile: [fishin]
All I know is that I don’t go up there no more for that reason, the fish have to have a chase to grow.

:sunglasses:Diet is a major factor in the consistency, color and taste of fish flesh. Water chemistry and preferred habitat are other factors. Third in line is natural genetics. Some species just typically are more palatable than others…but it is all very subjective. Some folks don’t like any fish whereas others will eat anything…and love it.


**Rainbows, brookies, kokes and other freshwater salmonids are all prone to taking on more flavorful and firmer pink flesh if their diet is rich in insects and crustaceans. That is because these critters have more vitamin A and carotene in their systems, which accumulates in the fatty tissues of the fish that eat them. **


When planters are dumped in our local lakes, they usually have very soft pale flesh. However, if they quickly adapt to feeding on zooplankton, insects and crawdads, they “pink up” pretty quick…along with developing better fins and more natural skin coloration. That’s why it is possible on lakes like Jordanelle to keep two 14 inch rainbows and have one with pretty pink flesh and the other with white mushy flesh.


Trout that live mainly on fish flesh usually have a paler flesh themselves. But, even a large brown that eats little besides small perch and chubs will often have firm flesh that is very good on the table.


I have fished for several species of cutts in the west. I have found them to be the most likely to absorb bad flavors from the waters they inhabit or from their diet. Some of the highly alkaline lakes in northern Nevada and up into southern Oregon have fish that you wouldn’t want to invite home to dinner. Terrible. On the other hand, I have kept a few searun cutts from the coastal rivers of Oregon that lived on shrimp in the ocean and had bright red flesh just like the salmon and steelhead in the same waters.


Most of us in Utah have experienced catching cutts from the high mountain lakes. These fish live almost exclusively in insects, with a few trout fry in the mix. They are always great in the pan, with pretty pink flesh.

Sorry this is a little off topic, but do you think the reason the table quality of Bonneville Cutts is so poor is because they are so carnivorous?

Not at all. A good sized (piscivorous assumed) Bear Lake cutt’ from the cold clear waters of Bear Lake tastes delicious compared to the same size Bear Lake cutt’ from Strawberry. There is a very noticable difference in taste to me.

So if the cuts don’t eat the bigger fish, then why do I catch them on 7 to 9" A/C plugs?

I would propose your A/C plug doesn’t have the same defence mechanisms and desire to live as the same sized real fish [;)]. In general the larger the planter the better it is at evading attack. Maybe it’s brains or maybe it’s brawns, but I’ll bet it’s a combination of both.

:sunglasses:We are all entitled to our own opinions and we all have the right to ask WHY? Strawberry has been a football for a lot of years, because everybody has their own idea of what it should be…to suit their own personal desires or ways of fishing.


**I doubt you will ever get DWR to consider including rainbows in the slot. Rainbows are their hatchery pets that they raise to satisfy the happy harvesters. There has to be something in the lake for the fish eaters to take home. Wouldn’t be a true Utah fishery if there was no harvest at all. **


As you say, you can’t make everybody happy. At times it seems like you can’t make ANYBODY happy. No matter what policies and regulations DWR comes up with there are a bajillion naysayers who find fault with it. I wouldn’t wanna be them.