Changes to licenses?

Utah Fishing Reports & Discussion Utah Fishing General
1

I have been thinking a bit lately about how to improve the fisheries and fishing experience in Utah. I do want to give props to all those involved in influencing fishing in Utah as it could be argued that no landlocked state has it so good (size, species, etc).

One thought I had was to charge more for annual fishing licenses. $26 is a steal and I would gladly pay double if the extra revenue meant:

  1. Better licenses - instead of the ridiculously huge paper license, we get a card the size of a credit card that can be electronically swiped. It is hard to remember to take my license every time I go fishing but I always take my wallet.

  2. More patrolling by DWR - I hate intentional law breakers and they need to be caught and fined. Although warnings and leniency should probably go to those who are first time offenders or in situations that are not cut and dry, intentional poachers who are seriously in breach of regulations need to be stopped and pay for their damages.

  3. More stockings, of more species, and of larger fish - Small fish (under 6") seem to have high mortality. Bigger fish (6-9") survive but cost more. There are lots of us that would like to see tiger musky, tiger trout, and sterile brookies, and even wipers planted in more lakes.

  4. Fishing regulation education required for license - There should probably be a 90 minute course covering regulations, slots, species, handling fish, boating safety, etc, that is required to take before getting a license and has to be retaken every 4-5 years. Like a hunter’s safety course but for fishing. Education will do more for the health of a fishery than most anything else.

  5. More trophy fisheries and more community fisheries - I would like to see more fisheries designated as either trophy or community. Put tight regs on the trophy fisheries and stock the community fisheries like crazy. That way sport fishermen can have trophy waters and meat eaters have their waters. The fisheries in the middle seem to suffer from an identity crisis with management.

Thoughts?

2

For all that you would like to see happen you license would have to go up by like ten times the price that it is now and then you would find out that the people that are not going to follow the rules will still be doing what they are doing.

I’m not saying to do nothing but there are better answers than just trying to throw money at the problems.

3

$12.00 in Alabama and $15.00 in Arkansas gets you what $26 gets you out here. I understand where you are coming from, but a_bow_nut does bring up a good point about those who are already not following the rules.

4

Why haven’t you folded your license and put it in your wallet? It doesn’t make it void if you fold, spindle, or crease your license.

And why would it need to be electronically swiped? [crazy]

If you see something going on that is against the law, you can call the poaching hotline, or if you spend a few minutes you can get the cell phone numbers of the C.O.s in the area. Call them.

5

Try this: cut the license fee in half and raise the fine for not having one by ten times.

6

“For all that you would like to see happen you license would have to go up by like ten times the price that it is now and then you would find out that the people that are not going to follow the rules will still be doing what they are doing.”

Assuming 200,000 licenses are sold each year, an increase of $25 is $5 million more PER YEAR. I think most of my suggestions could be done for that amount.

I also think most rule breakers are on accident or are due to ignorance. For the ones that are not, that is why I would want more CO’s hired to crack down on the rule breaking.

“I’m not saying to do nothing but there are better answers than just trying to throw money at the problems.”

Like what? I at least gave suggestions.

“$12.00 in Alabama and $15.00 in Arkansas gets you what $26 gets you out here. I understand where you are coming from, but a_bow_nut does bring up a good point about those who are already not following the rules.”

These states are sustainable warm water fisheries with very little of a coldwater fishery. Utah has a much more expensive fishery to maintain AND I would argue probably a much better fishery (for those that like diversity). I also can’t compare those states to Utah as I don’t know those states at all. But I do pay a lot more to fish in Wyoming and Idaho (out of state) and know I would pay more to fish in Utah.

“Why haven’t you folded your license and put it in your wallet? It doesn’t make it void if you fold, spindle, or crease your license.”

Have you ever tried folding it to make it fit in your wallet? Does not fold well and is as thick as can be. My wallet already looks like it would compete well with George Castanza’a wallet.

“And why would it need to be electronically swiped?” Actually it wouldn’t. Good suggestion. Just make it smaller and more convenient!

“If you see something going on that is against the law, you can call the poaching hotline, or if you spend a few minutes you can get the cell phone numbers of the C.O.s in the area. Call them.”

I would and do have the poaching number in my phone and have called twice. But usually I am trying to avoid people so I rarely see what is going on. More enforcement can only be a good thing!

7

Why so complicated? Here’s a 1-step fix:

Ban Power Bait. [;)]

8

  1. Better Licenses - As was already stated, just fold it up. My 2 licenses, and my wife’s license fit nicely behind my driver license. It works, plus it’s just big enough that a CO can read it with binoculars if they ask me to hold it up, rather than kicking to shore or hiking through a bunch of rough stuff, just to get checked.

  2. More patrolling by DWR - I’m sure most of us that follow the rules would like to see more enforcement. It’s just not as simple as charging more for the license. They do what they can.

  3. More stockings, of more species, and of larger fish - Stocking larger fish means stocking uglier fish. A finless rainbow is better than getting skunked, but wouldn’t you rather catch a beautiful fish that has grown and learned how to live in that environment, rather than a pellet-fed raceway? No contest for me and I think you’d agree, quality wise.

Sure, I’d like to see more variety at certain places, but look at what the DWR has been able to accomplish. I’m proud of our DWR and their ability to produce the fish that they do. We have more rainbows than we know what to do with, we have one of the best tiger trout programs in the world, and we are now raising our own wipers and tiger muskies. Talk about awesome!

As these hatcheries evolve and the more they learn, we’ll start seeing these test tube fish in more spots, helping to solve more problems for us. I’m excited for the future.

  1. Fishing regulation education required for license - Who is going to teach this course? The DWR itself? County government? Municipalities? Where would these courses be taught? Making it more difficult to get a license won’t help anglers out or the DWR.

Let’s say I finally talk this old retiree that lives behind me into going fishing with me someday (or anyone who normally doesn’t fish). He’ll need a license and if we have to wait for a 90 minutes course to be completed before he gets his license, it’s already past his bedtime when we’re done.:laughing: No, that’s just not going to work out.

When we buy a license, we sign it. That’s our contract stating that we accept the responsibility to understand and follow the fishing regulations.

I would definitely encourage licensing agents (Wal*Mart, Sportsman’s, Cabela’s, etc) to provide a proclamation while issuing licenses though. Sure, they’re already right there and free, but actually grabbing one and handing it to the licensee with their new license would be good. Nothing to be required, but a good idea.

  1. More trophy fisheries and more community fisheries - The angling community is far too diverse to group into two categories. Your black and white perception of “meat eaters” vs “trophy hunters” seems very narrow-minded to me.

You already have a ton of trophy waters to choose from, whether they’re regulated as such or not. You’re a talented angler, and catch a lot of nice fish. Most average folks would be very excited to have a record of catches like yours. Why are you always complaining about this state and its fisheries management? It seems very ungrateful.

Don’t like the way a certain water body is being managed? Fish somewhere else. Can’t find anywhere that meets your personal standards? Move away or better yet, build your own fishery. Then you can be as exclusive as you want.

In the meantime, realize you’re only 1 person and you have to share with the rest of us.

I feel lucky to be here and there are few things I’d like to see changed. Less red tape would be where I’d start.

Fishing exists, solely because mankind saw something edible in the water and needed a way to harvest it. Fishing for sport is enjoyable, but let’s not forget where it came from.

Sorry, you asked for thoughts. There are mine.

9

Assuming 200,000 licenses are sold each year, an increase of $25 is $5 million more PER YEAR. I think most of my suggestions could be done for that amount.

Have you looked at the budget that the state has for fishing? I dought that five million is little more that a drop in the bucket.

I also think most rule breakers are on accident or are due to ignorance. For the ones that are not, that is why I would want more CO’s hired to crack down on the rule breaking.

While there are honest mistakes and people not knowing better I think that the majority of the law breakers know what they are doing is wrong and try to play it off as ignorance.

You can not make people be ethical or make good choices with more laws or law enforcement officers. (Just look at the prison system.) The best way is to teach the kids and to set an example for them which doesn’t cost a penny.

“I’m not saying to do nothing but there are better answers than just trying to throw money at the problems.”

Like what? I at least gave suggestions.

Finding ways to improve fishing while working with nature instead of against it. (example] The planting of hybrid fish that will help in the control of the rough fish population. Resulting in better fishing for a larger variety of species instead of piosoning the entire lake (if that is even possible and won’t kill all of the fish anyway) then replanting it and waiting years for the fish to grow up. Just to have it go back to the way that it was and needs to be poisoned again.

Educating the general public as to why certian changes are being made and the benifits of these changes so that people at least have a chance to make their own opinions and you will find that most people will be more willing to follow the changes if it brings better fishing down the road.
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“And why would it need to be electronically swiped?” Actually it wouldn’t. Good suggestion. Just make it smaller and more convenient!

How many years of your new license fees would it take to pay for an entirely new operating system for the licenses? Then what about the new CO’s? Paying more money to raise fish to a larger size which you will have fewer of due to space issues unless you build more hatcheries which is even employies and more money.

10

Though I usually don’t use power bait I have used it when fishing with my kids to teach them how to fish. My oldest is three and it is a lot easier to throw bait on her pole. I use power bait as a learning tool just like my dad did with me. I usually use artificial lures now or just worms or cut bait.

11

Arkansas holds its own with plenty of cold water fisheries. I know a ton of people, including my father, who make a living as a fishing guide on a few of these cold water fisheries. Just my 2 cents. [;)]

12

Call me a purist, a snob, even a jerk… but you are not teaching anyone to fish with powerbait. Fishing is a skill; an art, a series of techniques employed as conditions are observed and responded to.

Being more accurate, you are doing little more than teaching your child to reel.

Using powerbait is not fishing (in my book). That’s like seeing if you can catch a hooker with a $100 bill.

No doubt, this will be argued. And, in all fairness, if you’re out on the water to put food on the table - then lobbing bait out on a hook while you sit around doing whatever-it-is-you-do between nibbles is your best bet.

But the vast majority of us are surely out there for sport, not survival.

Would you rather your kid get a trophy for participation? Or a trophy for working, improving, and succeeding?

This article is great food for thought.

13

Assuming 200,000 licenses are sold each year, an increase of $25 is $5 million more PER YEAR. I think most of my suggestions could be done for that amount.
Assuming that license sales would continue at the same pace is quite a leap. I would expect a zero-sum gain because of the reduction of the numbers of licenses purchased. Perhaps that is what you would prefer, but I don’t believe the resources owned by the people and held in trust by the state should only be available to those with higher levels of disposable income.

I have another suggestion. Take names of all those willing to pay more in order to sacrifice $ in the name of improving fishing, and tax them a percentage of their income.

14

Call me a purist, a snob, even a jerk… but you are not teaching anyone to fish with powerbait. Fishing is a skill; an art, a series of techniques employed as conditions are observed and responded to.

Being more accurate, you are doing little more than teaching your child to reel.

Using powerbait is not fishing (in my book). That’s like seeing if you can catch a hooker with a $100 bill.

No doubt, this will be argued. And, in all fairness, if you’re out on the water to put food on the table - then lobbing bait out on a hook while you sit around doing whatever-it-is-you-do between nibbles is your best bet.

But the vast majority of us are surely out there for sport, not survival.

Would you rather your kid get a trophy for participation? Or a trophy for working, improving, and succeeding?

This article is great food for thought.

OK pharticus, which one do you want to be called:D
seriously though. I have probably been in more arguements with other fisherman over the bait verses artificial opinion than any other subject.

As a father of six, I would argue that teaching a kid to “reel” is a great lesson learned, as is casting and snagging in the weeds and so on and so forth. I am assuming that you took up fishing at a later age then 3 or 4, because when a kid first starts fishing, they only care about reeling in fish. Though I’m sure it has happened, I would venture to say that it is very rare for a little kid to start by fly fishing or casting daddys 5 dollar lures into the rocks and trees. Power bait, or any legal bait for that matter is the BEST way for a kid to catch the fishing bug and evolves from there.

Now, I’ve been told on more than one occasion that flyfisherman are a “better class” of fisherman, and also that lure fisherman are too, but that is complete BS. make no mistake about it, although the mortality rate is lower, guys that fish with artificials kill a ton of fish too! No matter what method of fishing one prefers, it is still a blood sport, and looking down ones nose at someone using bait is the kind of elitism that will destroy fishing and hunting as we know it today.

I never could figure out those fisherman that griped about others keeping fish or using bait, just to go to the restaurant or market to buy fish. We are all fish killers,regardless of how careful we try to be.

That being said, I rarely use bait for myself unless it is for warm water fish like catfish just because its a hassle to me, and I catch a bloody ton of fish with out it, but I do keep a couple of jars of powerbait in my tackle bag for my young daughters to use when that is all that will work or they just don’t feel like being quite as attentive as they could be. I know that because of fishing with this and other kinds of bait, that my children will keep buying licenses and take their children and spouses fishing for at least another generation.

I’m not attacking you, I believe that you are entitled to your opinion and may have good reason for it, but part of our responsibilities as fisherman is to make sure and pass a little on to those that don’t know how to fish and see that they have success with it no matter how they do it as long as it’s legal.

Just my 2 cents worth.

15

As clarification, this has nothing to do with fish injury. I’m not anal or naive about such realities… Now,

Father of 5 boys. Fishing since I could hold a pole. Taught by a great-grandfather on one side of the family, and a grandfather from the other. One was a bait fisherman, one was a lure fisherman. I’ve been on both sides of the fence. I discerned at an early age that one required skill and was captivating - posing a challenge and offering significant personal reward, while the other was, frankly, fairly boring and required no discernable talent.

Yes kids want to reel fish in. They also want cake and ice cream for dinner on a regular basis. I’m not suggesting there’s no room for cake and ice cream, but daily intake does not a healthy fisherman make.

When running out of powerbait means an end to one’s excursion, there’s something wrong.

It seems to me that passing on the love of fishing calls for far more than what is virtually the same as taking the next generation to a fish farm…

I get that kids have short attention spans, are quick to give up. But catering to those whims is hardly a step forwards in our responsibilities to rear and raise them. I guess I perceive my efforts to teach my children the SKILL of fishing translates to life lessons about patience, endurance, attentiveness, reasoning, deduction, success, failure, positive support - and gratification in successfully accomplishing a challenging task.

As with you, I am respectfully submitting my opinion.

16

I’ll refer you to the second line in my post:

“I do want to give props to all those involved in influencing fishing in Utah as it could be argued that no landlocked state has it so good (size, species, etc).”

I think Utah is hands down one of the most amazing states for fishing, especially since we are land locked. Nothing wrong with trying to make it even better and be proactive before having to poison a lake.

I don’t get the mentality that “Things are pretty good now. Why should we try to make it better. Those who want to make it better are spoiled, selfish and ungrateful.” If that were the case, we would still be listening to the radio and watching black and white TV and riding horses. I believe if we aren’t moving forward, we are likely moving backwards, and the world needs more forward thinkers than those who are just content with how things are, especially when it comes to ecosystems and biology.

Again for the record, I think Utah is doing an amazing job with the fisheries!! But with the new technology of hybrids and sterile fish, I believe it can be better. I give props to Utah for being at the forefront of this “technology” and am excited to see how they apply it moving forward.

For me, there is no room in my wallet for both fishing licenses folded up. 5 or 6 credit cards, drivers licenses, receipts, business cards, drivers license, loyalty cards, etc. This is one change I think needs to happen. How hard can it be to make a drivers license size fishing license that will easily fit into one’s wallet. May even be cheaper to do this. Renewing could be as easy as a sticker like car registration.

I also agree I would rather catch fish that have adapted to its environment and have their fins. By stocking bigger fish, I mean stocking them at 7 or 8 inches instead of 3 to 5 inches, so that they have a greater chance to survive. Once they get to be 14 or 16 inches, they should look healthy by then.

I still like the idea of more required education for anglers including how to handle fish, how to release fish, recent DWR efforts and goals, etc. It could be as easy as watching a 30 minute video on-line. If someone is not willing to watch this every 5 or 10 years, I am not sure they deserve the privilege of fishing. Nothing has changed my opinions more than fishing or learning from those who know more than me. Changed me from a meat hunter to a selective harvester to a mostly catch and release.

Obviously we disagree about keeping fish to some extent. Sure, fishing was created to capture fish as a method for survival. Not the case anymore. We don’t need to fish to eat. It is actually more expensive to fish to eat. We fish for sport. Of course I think we should be allowed to keep a fish or two. But 4 fish seems excessive.

I am all for selective harvest, which only comes through either an educated fisherman or strict regulations. I would vote for both. I keep fish often and think anglers should also be allowed to keep one fish in the slot at Strawberry. But I think the mentality of having to keep bigger fish instead of the better eating more plentiful average sized fish needs to be changed.

I am only one person and am not demanding that everyone see it my way. I understand that opinions are like butt holes in that everyone has one. I guess I should just keep my opinion to myself or to other trophy hunters/selective harvesters. For some reason, it seems like you really don’t like my opinions although I do respect yours. Funny that we fish with many from the same crowd.

I have heard about Arkansas trout fishing and hear it is amazing. Aren’t they mostly self-sustainable brown trout though?

I also learned how to fish with power bait but rarely touch the stuff anymore. I see nothing wrong with introducing kids to fishing through power bait but teaching them the more technical methods as they age.

17

I don’t agree with the license fee increase. License fees are put into a general fund and then DWR gets a percentage of that. I believe that by raising license fees is just another way for state lawmakers to get themselves a nice little raise without raising taxes. I would have no problem with the fee increase if it stayed with the DWR. I liked the other ideas though.

18

If a license won’t fit in your wallet now, it won’t fit when it is the size of a credit card.

19

If the license fees went directly to the DWR I’d be glad to pay double what I pay now even though I’m retired & on a fixed income. I just wish there could be more agents out & about to enforce the regs. I’ve been at the fish cleaning station at Strawberry several times and watched clowns clean over limits of slot cutts with impunity. I’ve called and reported them when I see it but doubt an officer got there in time.

20

i like the idea of a credit card size license that you keep for ever and pay a renewal few on a card rather then a paper one and you could charge a higher fee if its lost. Lets face it how many time do you get it wet and cant read dates on it by the time it expires
Maybe require a stamp for lake with slot limits and special reg’s there is not one time i go to the berry and some one there dont know the difference between a cut and a bow or how many of what size they can keep
i bet at least a dozen times a year i tell some one they are need to let go a cut and they look at me like i’m crazy most the time they stay 15 or 20 mins and just take the fish with them