Why? Why? Why?

Utah Fishing Reports & Discussion Utah Fishing General
1

I have been visiting here for a couple years, and just registered. I am a TERRIBLE fisherman, but would like to change that, as I have loved it since I was a kid. I only get out once in a while, like 5-8 times per year, usually with kids, so bear with me.

So, who can tell me why glowing jigs and the like catch fish? Nothing in a fish’s normal prey base in freshwater glows, that I can think of. Is it a simple question of visibility? If so, would attaching a light above a jig (like where you’d put a little spoon) attract fish and help them find the bait. We’re planning an assault on the burbot this week, and I wondered if some oversized glowstick-like beads would help.

Why do fish hit one lure, but not another that looks super similar? I mean, it makes no sense to me that my chartreuse jig is a different brand than yours and you are catching all the fish, but they’re the same size, about the same style, etc… They say that most lures out there are designed to catch fishermen…

What the heck is a ratfinkie? Why is it better than any other jig the same size?

What tricks can anyone tell me for finding fish through the ice without an electronic unit.  I know they aren't that expensive, but I spend less than 500.00 per year on outdoor stuff, including license, gas, gear, and park fees, and that includes bowhunting.  I'll do it eventually.

It's nice to be part of it finally....
2

Well welcome to the forum. The reason glow works is that a lake that is covered with a foot or so of ice and a foot of snow is very dark. The glow just attracts them in the darker water. Once they get close the scent of the bait and action of lure entices the bite.

A rat finkie is a very small jig that has a rubber body. Do a google search on them and search images. Sportsmans Warehouse has a good selection of ice stuff. They can hook you up. I personaly dont like rat finkies. I would get you some blue radical glow jigs two inches or smaller. Some maniac ice cutrs I like the white with red flake and some 1/16th ounce white jig heads to put it all together. Next buy some chub minnows and wax worms and tip your jigs with small peices of the minnow or worms.

Hope that helps you get a good start. Oh and I dont have the money for electronics so i just drill holes till I find a depth I want to fish and I start fishing. If I am not catching fish in 30 minutes, I move.

3

I have to disagree.
While ice and snow will refract light in a different matter than liquid water, ice and snow is still very transparent and allows light to transfer to the depths quite easily as long as the water clarity is good.

4

I am not convinced that the glow jigs work better for trout. In fact, my last trip to Woodruff yielded less hits and fish with the glow jigs. The “non-glow” jigs did much better.

As for my limited experience with burbot, the glow definately worked the best. I think that burbot are one of the dumber fish I have pursued. I think that they will hit about anything and the glow just makes it easier for them to find. Just my opinion, however.

I doubt you are a “bad fisherman”. Experience is the best teacher. Its sounds like you don’t get out fishing much. The more you go, the better you get. I am always trying new lures, depths, and techniques. Thats one of the enjoyments of fishing; trying and testing…

5

First of all you need to spend time fishing… The more time you spend on the water the more you should learn…

If you want to learn how to catch one kind of fish find some one on this board and get him/her to take you with them or meet them on the water some place…But when you go pay at leased 1/2 or more for gas to them…

Ask before you go what lures or bait to get (kind and make color sent weight and line to use) and how many you may need…

A light up your line???Could work..

And NO LURE IS MADE TO JUST CATCH fisherman… If they don’t catch fish they don’t stay on the market for long, + one lure may work on one lake or steam but not on any other as good… And how you work the lure will make or brake as well…

Pick one kind of fish and learn to catch it then pick another kind and learn how to catch that one soon when you know why one lure or color works over the other you can let the rest of us know…[;)]

Welcome to the board and keep on trying…

6

Sorry for trying to help. My point is a valid one. A lake covered in snow and ice is darker down 30 feet than a lake that is ice free. Thats why glow jigs work better in the winter. I understand that light gets through but there is much less in winter. How bout some tips for the noob? You are coldfooter right?

7

noob ??

Ever ice dive?? I doubt it because If you have you’d know a good amont of light passes through ice and snow.

8

i have tried glow stick when fishing in very deep water it seemed to attract more hits but didnt seem to catch more fish if that makes any sense, they would hit it to check it out but more of a bump rather that a swallow.

9

Just a thought if you only have 500.00 a year to spend.I’d let the ice go away and wait for it warm up.Then go fishing.You’d need less equipment.A couple of hooks worms and sinkers your set.Heck one pair of nice gloves would cost more than that stuff would.Your kids might even like it more.If you can’t catch a fish at least you and the kids could go swimming,sun bathing,skip a few rocks and so on.You could even sleep over night you’ve already spend the money to get there.I wish I could go fishing 5-8 times a year and only spend 500…I’d never work again…

Rapalas like to sit next to the camp fire and tell fish stories.

10

Springbuck wrote:>
I am a TERRIBLE fisherman

So, who can tell me why glowing jigs and the like catch fish?

Why do fish hit one lure, but not another that looks super similar?

What the heck is a ratfinkie? Why is it better than any other jig the same size?

What tricks can anyone tell me for finding fish through the ice without an electronic unit. …

Sorry but I dont buy into your statement that your a terrible fisherman. If you can cast or reel a line you can fish, if you can fish you can catch. I believe its a matter of gaining know how and time spent to learn the habits of the species your willing to target

As far as why glow works. I doubt anyone truly knows the complete why to that question but my best guess is its simply more visible at a distance or in stained or dark water.
For instance, one of my best tricks to catch Walleye under the ice at UL is to use two rods. One sporting a vibration bait, the other loaded with a glow something. 8 out of 10 times the Walleye will bypass the vibration bait and take the glow whether its being jigged or setting dead stick. Vibration gets their attention, sight/glow gets the strike. I fish for eye after dark.

Again its my opinion much of why a fish will hit one lure while avoiding another is due to the visual effect and/or it vibration. This seems especially true when finesse fishing.

Personally I dont think Ratfinkies are all that special. I own them, have caught fish on them, but I own a lot of different gear, large and small, and havent found a finkie to do any better than small (1") tube.

The best advice I can give you as far as fishing without a FF on the ice is to be willing to work the entire water column, but I start at the bottom and work up. And try and fish points which extend into the water. Often is the only change in structure compared to the surounding bottom of a lake. Another thing, Pay attention to were most of the fish are being caught.
Dont be afraid to ask a few questions now and then while on the ice

But when it get right down to brass, the best advice anyone can give you is, go fishing more. I believe time spent doing creates know how.

11

Remember that WY does not allow and type of light or glow stick attached to your line or submerged in the water. Good luck.[;)]

12

:slight_smile: For burbot I can offer a couple suggestions which have been working for me. The information is free so no returns are accepted [;)]

I use a glow jig tipped with a minnow, dropped to the bottom and then pulled taught (so it is close to resting but just above) then if no action after a few minutes, I bounce the jig off the bottom.

All glow jigs are not created equal. The radical glow seem to last much longer than the FWB but are more expensive, i have used and caught with both, less charging with the RG’s. I also like to dip the jig head in smelly jelly before i insert it in the tube.

I use a glow tube (not to be confused with a light stick) or glow beads about 18" up from my bait just above a swivel and a silver colorado blade. The glow stick I like is just like a rat finkie body, but larger - about an inch and a half long. I got them at Cabelas. They are made from the same material so they glow forever and a day with only a small charging session. I have only found them a few times so if not the bodies use the beads (2 or 3) - light sources are not legal to attract fish. However a “glow” lure is not considered a light source as it does not generate light.

Now, sounds like a lot of setup, but fishing the same holes, that rig out performed the jig alone easily 3 to 1 this year.

Also sounds like u need a field trip to Cabelas or Sportsmans.. That is part of the fun as well. Their helpful staff can not only tell what some of these lures are but show you as well and they are happy to do it. In fact, I think I need a trip myself… I’m headed that way at lunch.

There is my $.02 - good luck and go fishin :sunglasses:

13

I have to agree with coldfooter. I brought my inderwater camera up to Strawberry which had about 6 " of snow. Visibility under the water was at least 80’. The depth was about 40’

14

One other thing that has helped me is reading books and magazines and watching videos related to the fishing I like to do. I had to learn to fish without the benefit of knowlegable friends or relatives. I spent nearly all of my spare time immersed in various media learning the trade. There is so much more available today it almost becomes confusing. I have learned a ton from InFisherman books, magazines and videos, BASS Master magazine, other publications and websites such as this one. If you want to be good, then study and practice. Figure out the basics - species specific basic nature, fish location, knots, casting, lure types, presentation, quality gear - then move on to specifics of color, action, structure, etc, etc, etc. There is no quick fix to make you a good/great angler. 90% or more of catching is skill and intellect, 10% or less is raw luck.

15

Boy do I relate to your comments/questions Springbuck! So I wonder if you are asking yourself if some comments are helping or confusing matters! :slight_smile: I sure feel that way sometimes.

I’ve read a few books on species - some of which completely contradict themselves with paragraphs like one I read on catfish that said in essense “It’s best to fish for cats at night, exept when it’s best in the middle of the day.” [crazy] And as to people, we all have our own opinions. I believe that fishing is an art as much as anything else. I groan mightily when I hear of people say that putting 8 maggots on a specific lure got nothing, but then only 7 made all the difference. Gimme a break I say…[;)]

It’s up to us to try out what advice is good from the not as good, by experiencing it. The challenge is that people’s experiences are different, but what I wish others understood better is that LEARNING STYLES also differ. IOW: Just spending time fishing and experimenting may not be the best approach (we may be doing totally the wrong things!), nor the quickest path to success. I learn best by SEEING WHAT WORKS, and then DOING by myself. That way I’m starting with a good foundation and not reinventing the wheel, and from there I can experiment to find what works for me, asking follow up questions as conditions change.

So, I can’t undervalue the importance of going out with someone. Several on this site have been willing to with me. THANKS!!! :slight_smile:

FWIW: I like the rat finkies and they have done well for me, however, they have wimpy hooks that can bend. (So I make my own.) I have never had the experience where something that was almost identical didn’t catch fish when another did. At least thru the ice, rarely do I catch something without bait. My opinion, (subject to revision) is that the lure gets attention, and the bait is what the fish go for.

That’s my “opinion” and any one o’ yous guys feel free to change it! [sly]

Good luck!

16

Every lure, jig, or fly can be applied different ways to catch different fish. So far as the glow jigs go, they can work but I find that subtle, natural colors that match natural surroundings and baitfish account for alot of catches, though there are certain bright colors that appeal to different species throughout the seasons. The best natural colored jigs, lures, and flies that everyone should have in their tackle box are white, dark to olive green, brown, grey, gold, silver, and black, or any combination of these colors for different applications in different sizes and styles to appeal to certain species.The best bright color to have around for any fish is chartreuse or chartreuse combined with red, orange, or black. Other favorite bright colors include yellow, orange, red, blue, pink, or purple. Many times these colors are more effective when combined with natural colors such as white and I know for a fact that certain fish are mesmerized at different times of year by some of these colors. I believe it is because of the limited color vision of different fish that certain colors hold appeal and I am certain that the way we see color and the way they see it is not the same. Any of these jig colors may accompany a translucent body with optional speckles in various colors for various situations and a scent attractant, such as anise, that may attract some fish and repel others.
In my opinion, things that look like UFO’s can actually be just as alarming as they can be tempting to fish. For these guys who swear by glow jigs for dark water, if it works for them then why not? I’ve used glow jigs in several styles and personally, i’ve always found natural hues to be more effective. My first go to color for a jig or a fly when fishing after dark is BLACK and it is, by far, the most deadly, as in sometimes 200 fish or more for an all-nighter. A black presentation creates a silhouette against the night sky just as any baitfish or insect would and it looks and I believe that is why it is so effective. Fish, such as perch or catfish, which are known to have relatively poor eyesight in comparison to other fish, can still be caught at night on a black, or other color jig, fly, or lure in clear water. You can slay them all night if you fish right in the middle of them. Trout can see well enough to eat a mosquito on the surface of a fast riffle on a moonless night and i’ve had to use a glowing strike indicator before to know that my size 20 midge was taken several times before. Walleye can see up to 15 feet away after dark in stained water such as in Utah lake and I have caught them there after midnight on large 3" curly tail grub jigs. You should know, all fish are specialized feeders that are well adapted to eating when there is food available and many fish prefer to hunt after dark, especially in the summer. The bundle of nerves along the lateral line of fish allows them to sense the vibration of a potential meal in their vicinity so they can get within visual range and intercept.
Rat finkies, or any other small to micro jigs, are simply made for either small fish or fish with small mouths, such as perch, bluegill, crappie, and trout, that forage on insects, zooplankton,crustaceans, invertebrates, and minnows. Small jigs are often applied for fish that are finicky after becoming inactive for reasons such as the pressure of a cold air mass settling in after a strong front; which, makes most but not all fish slow down. A really hot day with bright sun can also make fish lethargic because most fish are very sensitive to light and warm water doesn’t hold oxygen as easily as cool water. A hatch of insect larvae such as mayflies can make it hard to get an answer to your jigs when the fish are after larvae and your jigs look nowhere close to what their after. Cold winter water lowers the metabolic rate of fish which slows their need to feed. These conditions make the bite light enough at times that you can’t sense a strike without the right gear and can’t hook the fish with an average sized jig, lure, or large fly because a large offering is only partially taken and the hook may never come in contact with the fishes mouth.
Lures such as spinners, spoons, and wooden or plastic, topwater or diving, forage imitations all have a time and place and they are effective if you know the seasonal habits of the fish you are targeting and which lures work best for different situations. There’s alot to know about how ,when, and where to use different styles of lures, flies, or jigs to target particular fish so if you need some hints i’ll try to help you out and i’m sure that the rest of the BFT’rs will be more than willing to help. Let us know when you head out and where you are going and we’ll see what we can do.[;)]

17

Well, I wasn’t worried about not gettting lots of good replies from people who know more than I do, and I was right.

Now, I’m not a total loss. I have been fishing since I was a kid, and I catch a few most of the time, but if they aren’t biting much for anybody on the lake, except one guy and he keeps pulling them out, well, I am never that guy. Also, I have never caught one single fish at Utah Lake, Strawberry, the Gorge, and barely at Willard bay. (Pineview, Mantua, Holmes Creek, Uinta Lakes, and Jordanelle have been pretty good to me last few years.) I know zero about how water temps, storm fronts, depths, water clarity and the like affect fish, and I can never MAKE em bite, unless they start the minute I show up, like a lot of guys I see.

I plan to get out more and learn more, but I have 4 little girls, one of them is handicapped, I’m a sole breadwinner and make less than I was planning on (schooling cut short by life), and a wife that would rather be dragged to death behind a horse than go fishing (or anything outdoors), (don’t ask, long story, never saw it coming). She is actually darn nice about letting me go, and doesn’t mind, but you all know the kind of situation that creates.

PLUS, I already have enough hobbies, one of them already being fishing. I bowhunt and make my own bows out of wood and bamboo, do some inventing and woodworking, but have studiously avoided golf, skiing and electronics.

I have a couple rods, a couple reels and a couple boxes of gear. My panfish kit is good on the basics, and I have a bunch of cheap junk, plastic worms, spinners, spoons, odds and ends (stocking stuffers from people who don’t fish, usually) and a few Rapala’s, cranks, etc.. My favorite lure besides a small tube jig is a little spinnerbait that looks like a tiny bluegill.

Bummer to find out that Wyoming doesn’t let you have a glowstick on. I wonder why they don’t allow that, but will allow glowing jigs? I found these beads at the dollar store on glow necklaces for kids. They are about 1.5" long and work just like a little glow stick, so I was hoping I could put em a foot or so above a nice smelly piece of chub on a jig, but I guess not.

I read a lot, and that might be the best way for me. I learn this stuff best by thinking my way through what is happening.

Now for the good part. I just got on a 7 days on / 7 days off, 12 hour/day shift. That means I get every other week off, COMPLETELY. So I do get to learn a little about fishing.

Thanks, guys!

18

I know we talk a lot about electronics and other expensive stuff, but the first 15 yrs I ice-fished all I took was a hand auger, 1 pole and a little box with about a dozen jigs (ratfinkee, 1.5"tube for trout, small spoons) plus a can of wax or meal worms depending on the type of fish. Fishing doesn’t have to be expensive or complicated. Now I usually take my kids or some neighbor kids to teach them. Even though I don’t catch as many while babysitting it is more rewarding to watch them have a good time. By the way, If my wife asks I spend way less than 500 a year on fishing and hunting [;)].