What If

Utah Fishing Reports & Discussion Utah Fishing General
1

Okay, for us river walkers, we are seeing more and more bans on Felt.
Now I am reading on allot of other forums, the ban of LEAD.
I know I switched to lead substitute, or Tungsten years ago, but not because of this…well maybe a little in that Yellowstone has such a ban.

You guys that make your own jigs, weights, whatever, have you given any thought to this? I know Tungsten won’t melt to be a good substitute.

Like I said, I have been reading about this subject allot LATELY. Loons dying along with poisoning other wild life.
Just a thought…

2

:sunglasses:Naturally I think that a 100% ban on lead is not a good plan. The birds that die from ingesting lead are not eating my jigs. They are eating the lead pellets from hunters.

Yes, there are other metal alloys that can be poured into jig molds, but they have a much higher melting point and are more costly. And for what? I have never heard of a post mortem on any waterfowl that found lead fishing lures to be the cause of death.

Hopefully sanity prevails. If not I will turn the PETA folks loose on those who pass any such foolish legislation.

3

I know lead is on the chopping block, as you indicated. Everglades National Park is slated for a lead ban, and it might even now be in effect. I think that may even extend to ALL national parks soon, if it hasn’t already.

But you mentioned felt soles? I guess I’ve missed that one. I know they’re getting hard to find, but didn’t know they’ve been banned. I don’t agree with this one anyway. More mussels can hide in most wading boots and neoprene “stocking foots” than could ever hide in the felt of my boot-foot waders. As has been said, and I think even by you, if we don’t wash our stuff, it doesn’t matter what kind of soles our boots have. The crap will spread without diligence from everyone.

As for the lead thing, I’m guilty of losing dozens and dozens of one-ounce lead heads on the bottom of Flaming Gorge every year, along with countless others. I’m sure the lake bottom has lead chunks all over it, and some places have lots of it. I’ve seen it on my underwater camera. It can’t be a good thing.
I have not tried any substitute yet. I hate to admit it, but I’m not likely to change unless an easy solution presents itself, or I am made to do it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a one-ounce lead head with a 4/0 hook that doesn’t have lead.

I know that’s terrible, but I have SO MANY different lead heads as it is now, and I am set up on using it very deeply. It amounts to much more than just changing from a film cannister of split shot or twist-on to a small container of tungsten or other lead substitute.

I would certainly try and be a leader in the switch to lead-free fishing if I saw an effective alternative. I’m all eyes and ears!

The Jackson Lake fishermen are using alternatives, but I’m not exactly sure which ones, or how they’re making/ppouring lead heads for their jigs. I have heard a couple complain that they can’t find large enough heads, and the right configurations for their needs.

As for fly fishing, I haven’t used lead or weighted flies for over 15 years, so its not an issue for me personally on the rivers.

What is the lead substitute that most fly fishermen are using these days anyway?

This is a good topic we all probably need to explore more. I’m not sure about the effects of lead fishing products on the environment as a whole, and believe we have many more greater concerns, but it certainly couldn’t hurt to reduce or eliminate lead while we’re at it. What are the viable alternatives?

4

You re right about shot guns and even though it is now steel, there is allot of BB’s out there.
But, there are also Lures and sinkers

This is just one article:

Like I said, this has already started with banns in certain areas.

Lead is toxic, no two ways about it and yes it is all over even the paint on our bridges.
Is anyone else willing to switch to no toxic weight?

5

Jim, lead substitute wire, or even just plain wire, and Tungsten. There is even tungsten sheeting, and tungsten strips like in a match book.

And the SINK PUTTY is awesome.

6

I’ll have to do some further checking into alternatives for large lead heads. There must be a way, or a material, that would substitute. Since I haven’t seen much offered though, I’m assuming it may be viewed as cost-prohibitive at this point. Maybe I can find something, and help start a trend away from lead heads before state or federal agencies have to make us do it. Wouldn’t that be refreshing for a change!

As I said, I don’t carry anything to sink any flies, but should I ever start guiding fly fishermen again, I’ll carry one of the lead- substitutes.

7

We had this same discussion when I lived in Cali. One very popular method of salmon trolling requires the angler to use huge lead ball sinkers (up to 2-3# each) on a spring-loaded sinker release. Every time a fish hits your bait, the sinker drops to the bottom. I cannot imagine the countless pounds (tons) of lead that have been dropped over the decades just outside the Golden Gate alone!!! I had heard of some using iron balls, but I doubt they work very well as they are much larger for their weight…

8

I looked for some last year and had a hard time finding it and when I did the price was ridiculous. I think lead substitute will become more popular if the price drops.

9

No doubt the price is an issue. But, it could come down to no choice.
The have banned lead from toys, not sure of dinner ware, but I do my own research on that, residential paints…in other words they are trying.
Is it a bad thing though, I mean it is poisonous. Just like Mercury (the Mad Hatters choice)[;)]

10

I understand the toxicity involed and I am not against the use of other materials, but if companies want us to buy their products then they need to lower them. I know that there are places that are banning them and they can for they are in control of the waters there. It just makes it harder for the rest of us to enjoy the sport we love.[crazy] I would purchase the lead substitute in a jiffy if the price was decent. [:/]

11

No doubt.[;)]

12

Price is a definitive issue. I don’t use heavy jigs or fish with my fly pole [;)] often but I go through my fair share of bullet type sinkers every year and a few ‘lead heads’ for tubes and such.
Tungsten is the way to go, it is smaller in size in weight comparison, heavier than lead and less toxic but the prices can be more than double from lead weights. Also, like mentioned, finding lead is much more easier than an alternative. I’ve noticed that steel weights are trying to make their way back into the market at a comparable price alternative to lead but they weigh less than lead and are bigger because of that.
When I use weights I like to be as subtle as possible, steel is not an option. Unfortunately, neither is tungsten because of the price. I will use tungsten weights when fishing in very clear water or if the bass are being finicky during a tournament (the weight is usually my last option) but lead is my go-to for all fishing situations for weight.
I forgot where I was going with this…I have bullet weights in lead, red, black, purple, chartreuse, brown, and green…or I can buy a 3-pack of Tru-Tungsten 1/4 oz. bullet weights for $7.00??? I think I will stick to my lead weights for now.

13

:sunglasses:WHEN LEAD IS OUTLAWED…ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE LEAD.

14

LMAO…either have it or PACK it…:laughing:

Not so much, “Land of the free”, but maybe “Land of this is what is good for you”[;)]

15

i think the people using lead are the same people who are eating every single fish they catch. plumbism can be a nasty toxicity…i think the problem will resolve itself eventually.

16

I have clamped lead sinkers onto my tippet with my teeth for 20 plus years, and I seem to be fine. However, my wife gives birth to naked babies!!

In other words, I think we are taking this stuff way to seriously! Come on people get a grip!! If everything that is supposed to be so highly toxic is so toxic why aren’t we all dead yet?

I think the government should stay out of the way of my recreation, and everything else for that matter.

17

Sound like the smoker…been puffin for 20 years :laughing: Sad thing is, there is proof. Maybe not to you or me, but to some innocent.

Just remember…there is an alternative. Bet your glad with your children that there is no lead in the paint and their toys…(hopefully)[;)]

18

:sunglasses:In the greater scheme of things, there have been thousands of people all over the country who have either died or become ill from the effects of mining, agricultural, industrial and municipal waste. A little bit of fishermen’s lead is paltry by comparison.

What’s more, there are major laws in place to keep the big polluters from polluting. BUT…they keep on keepin’ on. Brings up a question. If they do outlaw lead will there be lead enforcement cops on every river and stream…looking for guys like me who fish with lead jigs? Seems like there are potentially better places to reduce pollution and to spend money on enforcement.

Somehow, with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the earthquakes and tsunamis, world hunger and unrest…well, I just can’t get too passionate about cutting back on the lead I use to make jigs. Give me a real cause…like neutering PETA members.

19

As far as the other things (countries) you mention, I don’t want to go there.

20

“i think the people using lead are the same people who are eating every single fish they catch.” That is completely ridiculous. The spoon didn’t make Rosie O’Donnell fat and using lead weights doesn’t make you a voracious fish eater. People who eat every fish they catch will die from mercury poisoning long before plumbism :laughing:.