Photo Centest Captains division

Ok this was mentioned in another thread so I figured I would bring it here where most people might be looking for it. It is a bit of an unfair advantage for guides to be lumped in with the recreational anglers and taking pictures of each days fish as single fish could be time prohibitive. The question is how does BFT level the playing field when it comes to a separate captains division.

Things to consider:

Seasonal catches
Species
Fresh/Salt water
Points system
Accountability
How to apply catch.

Suggestions:

Fish species are the same as for the recreational anglers including seasonal species.

Two categories one for fresh one for salt.

In an effort to support conservation limit one photo of a single species each day. This means for myself Catching 50 snapper means nothing as only one fish my be measured and counted for each day.

All captains “must” be wearing a BFT logo. Either hat, shirt, or own shirt with iron on logo.

BFT should supply one logo patch to each captain at no charge.

Well Joe, this is a concept that tuben2 and I are just now bouncing around. We’ve never had a captains tournament to my knowledge before.

My thoughts were to have a Saltwater only contest. The bulk of our captains are salty dogs, and it would be much of a contest with only a couple freshwater charter captains. Now, with that said, i’ll make sure and test that theory on the boards to see just how many we do have…as to prevent me from putting my foot in my mouth.:face_with_tongue:

OK, time to disect your ideas.

First and foremost, wearing or being in the picture with a BFT logo is a must. With that said, I could make sure that all the entrants get atleast a free patch and some stickers. That alone would make it worth while, it’s fun to compete anyhow.

Next, you mentioned taking a picture of a single fish per day. How would we keep score? The traditional 16 species contest is a total combination of length in inches of each fish caught. We could do a similar contest. Most charter captains specialize in a handful of species only. We have to open the contest up to any species of fish, not limited to 16. Some are pro’s at king mackerel, others maybe flounder or trout. Every now and then you get one that is multi-fish talented. I’m talking consistent fellas, not basic knowledge.

My original thought was to score off of total fish caught each trip. Have each captain lay out his catch, and with a BFT logo and holding up the date, take a picture. For each fish caught, a single point be awarded. I got to thinking about it though. It’s just not that easy. LOL, it would be a pain in the butt laying out all those fish every time you got back to the hill. I know when I get back, i’m ready for a hot shower, a hot meal, cold beer and the bed. I’m not interested in playing dominoes with 100 fish.[sly]

Taking a picture of your most prized catch for each day would be the easiest. I dunno, what other ways could we score it? I’d like to get away from the tape measure if possible. I wish we could do total weight, but that is hard to keep honest. LOL, a few leads in the mouth and you’ve got one hell of a fish; rather he really is or not. :face_with_tongue:

I’m sure we’ll get some more insight before long.

Hey Steve, you wanna purge the freshwater board for would-be charter captian entrants?

You will find that this is the toughest part of getting a competition going. You get hundreds of ideas, and 100 comments on how each idea could be better. I’m glad you guys are even willing to field questions or comments, Thanks

I know this is all in the planning stages and may not even happen, but I’m willing to help out with my ideas. If it doesn’t happen then maybe you have a jump on it for next year.

I think the 16 fish should be the same that just keeps it fair and simple. The captains should be able to measure one of each fish species per day for a photo. Points are the same as always 1 point per inch. Like you said setting up for 100 fish could pose a problem. I know some are specialty types but honestly I think if they want the glory they should rise to the challenge. Also a 50 inch king, mahi, wahoo,sail means from 2-4 snapper need to be caught to catch up, so it sort of evens out on its own. Total catch could get crazy with stuff like this.

I think going by weight is out of the question not for sinkers in the fish, rather not every scale is equal, my berkley gives a good guess but is always heavier than my IGFA certified Boga.

Even though you say most of the captains here are salty maybe if the fresh categories are wide open it will spark a little interest from some fresh water guides. Maybe Roland Martin could even get in on it, I’m watching Deal or No Deal and he is on cheering for the contestant. I guess this could be an incentive for him to spend more time fishing[;)]

I warned you I had more ideas than brains but you opened the can and the worms all crawled out.:face_with_tongue:

LOL, funny you mention Roland Martin. My son and I got to meet him a couple of weeks ago. Roland is getting old bro, he’s in “local motion.” I actually gave him a BFT card in hopes of getting him on the site. Check out the Marshalls Marine thread on the freshwater board, I did a write up on the expo I attended and took lots of cool pictures, including my son with a bunch of pro’s. I’m attending that SWS Seminar this Saturday. I’m looking foward to meeting George Pavoromo. He’s a very talented angler and I can’t wait to hear what he has to say. :sunglasses:

OK, next question, what qualifies you to enter the contest? Like me for instance, I have a Coast Guard 6-pack license but i’m not an active charter boat captian. Would I qualify to enter? Or, do you have to be an active charter captain? What’s the limit? Can a head boat captain enter? Commercial boat captains?

I would say if you charge people to go fishing you qualify as a Charter since that’s the legal description. Ask most people and you will find that a coast guard license is just like a drivers license, it doesn’t qualify you to race at Indy. Not that you or anyone is more or less qualified than me or any other working charter. Just if you don’t get paid than you are just a guy fishing, so you should be considered a recreational angler.

The requirements should be that you are a “for hire” vessel operating as a fishing charter since were talking about recreational angling. Charter/Head Boats fall under the Federal recreational bag and size limits. Commercial fishing vessels need special commercial licenses that allow them to keep over the recreational limits so they would have an unfair advantage over the recs. Also they can use trawls, nets, long lines, and other equipment that most others can’t.

I think I would qualify as I hold a 100ton Masters, and operate a 6 pack charter vessel, that has commercial insurance and commercial registration, allowing me to legally take passengers. Since you would only count one of any species it makes it fair to include the party boats as well, I would welcome the competition.

If the recreational guys want in with the daily fishermen then I say let them register. The only catch is if they roll with the big dogs then they can’t also compete with the regular weekend warriors.

I’ll find out on the freshwater section. No problem.

As far as this section goes, there really shouldn’t be a limit of how many different species per day. It is up to the entrants to put what they have. I have had days where I submitted 12 different species that were caught on one trip. From there I only worked on the upgrades for those species.

I will not compete in the Capts division since I am not a licensed boat capt. I will compete on the regular contest and help judge the Captains contest.

The same rules will apply anyways. The biggest submission of that species will be the one that gets the final point count towards the grand total.:sunglasses:

Hey Skipper. It would be almost impossible to mandate that all the species be the same. Some species are not available in all areas.

East Coast species differ from the West Coast. Mexico has some differences from NY.

We need to keep it open on the species. In some of the past contests I have submitted between 40 and 80 different species. Those were all local to me without going more than 90 miles from home.
Some of our members travel around in search of certain “Seasonal Species”.

There are no Tuna in Colorado and I have never seen Sturgeon in the Appalation Mountains.:sunglasses:

OK, so from our brain storming, this is what we’ve come up with so far.

To qualify for the captains tournament, you have to be a licensed Charter boat captain. Just holding a license won’t do, you have to actually charter paying customers, regardless of the type of vessel.

Any species qualify for the tournament, and there is no limit to how many different species that can be entered in a single day.\

From what you were saying steve, are we not putting a limit on how many of each species we can enter? What I mean is this. We can only put a single fish from each species on for each day. Are we going to tally up just the biggest of each species entered, or are we going to allow multiple fish of each species to be tallied up for a grand total? Does that make sense?

OK, Jan 7 I enter these fish into the contest:

49" Great Barracuda
47" King Mackerel
26" Summer Flounder

Now, on Jan 8 I enter these fish into the contest:

54" Great Barracuda
44" King Mackerel
16" Flounder

Granted we can only enter a single fish from each species each day, but are we going to just use the largest of each species entered for final score, or will we take only the largest of each fish species, like the 16 species contest, and tally them up?

Ok, I’m getting lost in the translation, I’m just not familiar with the entire contest. Any chance one of you is from New Jersey? or has seen the “fisherman” publication for New Jersey?

They run a contest where I think it’s 10 species, and anyone can enter. They list the 10 fish and only the largest submitted fish counts. So if I catch a 49" Great Barracuda I have the biggest until Tarpon4me enters his 54" Great Barracuda. Then only his fish is considered for the contest anyone with a smaller fish no longer qualifies for that species.

Standings would only read:
**Tarpon4me **
54" Great Barracuda

CaptJoeVerdino
30" Red Grouper

Second scenario to consider for this event is each person has their own list of species and just your biggest of that single species is counted. Then all the different species you caught are added together to get a final tally.

Standings would only read
Tarpon4me
54" Great Barracuda
47" King Mackerel
26" Flounder
Total 127 points

CaptJoeVerdino
49" Great Barracuda
30" Red Grouper
25" Black Grouper
18" Mangrove Snapper
Total 122 points

Third way is you can enter one of any species for each day. Each new fish adds to your total points for that species. At the end all your species are added together for the most points.

Tarpon4me
54" Great Barracuda
49" Great Barracuda
47" King Mackerel
44" King Mackerel
26" Flounder
16" Flounder
Total 236 points

CaptJoeVerdino
49" Great Barracuda
48" Great Barracuda
30" Red Grouper
29" Red Grouper
29" Red Grouper
25" Black Grouper
18" Mangrove Snapper
18" Mangrove Snapper
Total 246 points

Sorry if I’m missing something obvious

tubeN2

I think I’m in over my head here, I’m getting confused, which honestly isn’t very hard.

I figured there was one fresh water division and one saltwater division.
You pick 16 fresh water species that are the most caught like Largemouth,Carp, Catfish,walleye…etc

Then either it’s whoever can catch the largest of each species or the most amount of inches of each species.

Final is based on the most amount of total inches of the 16 species each angler caught.

So a guy who can land one sturgeon at 6ft each week is equal to the guy who lands a large mouth bass every day.

I think I may not be much help at this point. I guess I’ll have to study up on how you run the event.

You’re actually in better understandings than you think. The 16 species contest takes the biggest of each species you catch and uses it towards your total score. So it doesn’t matter how many King Mackerel you catch, the only one that is scored is the largest that was entered.

The way I was mentioning was the way you described in your “third senario” in your previous post. One fish per species, per day. Total score is added up at the end of the contest. It would be more difficult to keep score, but it would be more fun I think. :sunglasses:

That sounds correct according to the original 16 species contest that we have had in the past.:sunglasses:

I can see where the confusion comes in. You might be comparing the contest here with your local or state contest.

On the Big Fish Tackls website, we have been doing a 16 species contest for the past few years.

They have the general rules for the contest posted in some of the archive files.

What we are looking at doing here, is identical type of contest but with the Licensed Charter Professionals of this board.

Check out the posted rules from the 2004, 2005,and 2006 contests. You will see exactly what we are referring too.:sunglasses:

I think what you ment to say is…

Members who run a charter fishing or guide fishing busness is welcome to compete right along side of our regular members.

Not to compete directly against but in parralell to them.:sunglasses:

I am familiar with what you are talking about here.

We are toying around this same idea right now for our regular members and moderators.

The past 4 years we ran our contest with three categories, we group 16 total species where members have the opportunity to eliminate one species for a larger one.

We were discussing doing this vary same thing you are suggesting with 16 species where we select the 16 species that is most targeted across the continent. Each member has several months to submit the best of his favored species but only one person will win for said species, contestants may enter in any of the 16 categories. Or should I say 32 categories/species when you consider 16 for salt water and 16 for fresh water.

It is my understanding that you want to have one just for charters?

You do of coarse realize we have both inland fresh water charters and ocean & gulf salt water charters. Are you suggesting that we run just a salt-water charter category?

I do want to emphasize that our events for the moment dose not really have prizes of any significance. (I need to mention this) this may change in the future when the economy turns back around or sponsorship changes.

right now our events are free for our members. this I need to mention as well.

My question is, (not being in the charter business my self), what would it take to entice or get other charters to enter such a competition? This is the most important question to answer in order for us to make this happen.

I want to make this clear, we do not make a dime off of these contests, since we do not charge entry fees, and sponsors do not pay us for hosting. the only thing we get out of this is traffic from members and guest.

As a businessperson I am certain you understand this. as well as we don’t want to run a separate contest for just one or two people.

We have had charters compete in our past 16 species contest, most of which drop out shortly after entering because they just cant target that many species and make a living as well.

I am sure you understand I am not trying to hinder this but am trying to gather information to make this as profitable a venture for members, charters, and us as well. In other words, there has to be a nitch that holds the contest together.


Here are just thoughts about the type of event I was thinking about. the one similar to the one you mentioned.

*With different categories for each species it dose offer those who target certain species to enter there best for the fish they target most of the year.

*draw back to this, say once some reaches say a seven pound small mouth bass, we can be almost certain that we will not receive any more entries for that category. Should that bass come at the beginning of the year, that category will be dead for the rest of the season…even tho’ it is possible to catch a bigger smallies, it just is not all that probable…

In your business you know this to be true for any species. in the forum business it is a hangman’s noose. Once the bottom drops we have months of no entries so our visits to the contest strings slow down or stop after a while.

To be honest, it dose that now around October, we have a couple months were we wait for any last minute photos of summer fishing events to come in, they seldom do.

This is the reason we have opened this discussion to our members. our last years contest was the slowest ever, but that I’m sure was due to economics. It was for me.

To give you an idea on cost, if we just do hats for 32 categories, we are talking over 400.00 for hats and shipping.

Please keep the ideas rolling in, the more information we gather the better the events we can run for our members.

.

One thing I forgot to mention, our events run close to 200 days.

I spend literally hundreds of hours to host the events every year.

Now if some one is allowed to enter a 150 sail fish, I would have to add all them up, and if we get 50 members entering the contest and 45 of them enter 20 large mouth bass each, I have to add all of those up as well.

Like you said, simple and straight forward and above board is the best way to go…

We really do need these events to run for this long of a period, it tides us over till ice fishing season
.
.

What Steve and I were planning was just a friendly contest on the saltwater board, just run by us. We weren’t refering this as a catagory for the up and comming 16 species contest.

This would just be a fun way for the skippers to compete against each other for small prizes and bragging rights. Though we haven’t discussed the prizes in depth, I have no problem putting up a prize, and i’m sure Steve has something up his sleeve as well.

It’ll be a fun contest and it’ll give our charter captians a chance to strut thier stuff. :sunglasses:

Hummm,?

how about this?
Bigfishtackle’s Skipper Cannon Ball Run [left][/left] [left]Open to Charters and Guides[/left] [left][/left] [left]Photo rules, [/left]

  • you must have a bft logo or facsimily of the logo in the fish photo. - a skipper or a guest must be in the photo - a measurment of the fish must be in the photo with logo.

[left]Entry Rules,[/left]

  • 52 weeks 52 entries - 1 entry per week, may be upgraded at any time during that week only. - Bragging encuraged :face_with_tongue: - 10 extra points for getting a guest to register and tell his story behind your entry. (easy to do if you have an on board pc) or they can do it at any time at their leasure before the contest ends. - Charter or Guide service info must be in signiture. (web page/no forums - email address - or business phone number) - Final score will be a compiled total lenth of all 52 entries + any bonus points gained by new member testimony of the trip.

Actually, I like your idea pretty good. The only thing i’d change is how many weeks the contest goes for. We were thinking of making it just for like 4 months; during the peak season. About a 16 to 20 week spread.

We didn’t want a long, drawn out contest. Just something to make it interesting for the skippers to enter. Steve and I have noticed an influx of charter captains the last couple of months, it will be fun for them to have a little friendly contest.

So you think it would be better if they just entered a single fish per week? Do you think it would be too much to enter a fish each day? It would be much easier to keep score just to enter each weeks best. Instead of a 16 species contest, a 16 fish contest. Enter your best catch each week, regardless of how many of a species you enter, just your best catch for the week for 16 weeks.

At the end of the contest, post the results on the saltwater board and the tournament board. Have prizes for highest total score and largest fish. Most total score being the top catagory.