Some of what you say is true, but that is where management comes in to the picture…
Look at what the shad did for Willard, other lakes could work the same, trout will eat shad if given a chance to get as big as the Berry cuts are…
And some of the bass people have come up with a cover that can be placed in all lakes in the state that are boat friendly as well…
This is a very good post, I wish that the DWR would manage our likes for the fish and keep the politicking out…
[reply]
Where are they (they) who is they , and what if’s Like I said WIFES TALES, where have you ever heard of a bass large mouth or small mouth tagged tournament at or when ???
And who are you to call us fisherman red necks??
[/reply]
Cliff – You never read the whole proposal, did you?! That’s what this thing is about. Currenlty, tagged fish tournaments aren’t allowed (except for Powell). This new proposal will allow them on nearly every State Park in Utah.
The apparent solution is simple…plant a whole bunch of forage species. But, there are usually a whole lot more issues than that. While shad are a good food source for bass, they are a direct competition for troutkind. Shad are filter feeders and vacuum up the algae, zooplankton, copepods and other microorganisms that trout need too…both for the fry and for larger fish as well. And, we already know that when it comes to a choice between trout and other species…in Utah…trout will win every time.
Willard Bay is a “closed system”, with no potential for shad escaping downstream and affecting any other fishery. That is not true of any of the other lakes we hold dear. DWR is violently opposed to even giving the gizzard shad a try anywhere else. And, the threadfin shad will not survive cold winters in lakes north of Lake Powell. They are not an option, even if DWR wanted to plant them.
So, in most of our Utah bass ponds the bass have to make a living on available perch, bluegills, young crappie and white bass, chubs, crawdads and whatever else they can scrounge up. I am sure that a lot of them appreciate the plantings of rainbow fingerlings from time to time. Great bass food. DWR cannot and will not plant other bass food. And, without more food than they have right now, none of our lakes will ever reach the bass populations or sizes of lower and warmer lakes in other states. Basic biology.
No OLD WIVES TALES.
[reply]
Now with the tagged fish contests…it is most definitely dependent upon the body of water and the species of fish being targeted. In my mind, the only reason to have a tagged fish contest is in order to promote the harvest of a certain species. For example, years ago when they had the million dollar fish contest with Stripers in Lake Powell. I think that was a totally appropriate thing to do. That place was swarming with stripers and there was some definite harvesting that needed to take place. I think the next million dollar fish contest needs to be for Carp on Utah Lake. har har![/reply]
In your mind that is a great reason to hold a tagged fish tournament. However, it isn’t you that is pushing this proposal. It is the State Parks. What reason would the State Parks have for holding a tagged fish tournament? Benefit of the fishery? No way! Use of the State Parks continues to decline – and one reason is because ever increasing entrance fees. But now the State Parks want to be able to hold tagged fishing contests. Why? To increase use of the State Parks, and charge more money for people to access the State Parks.
This proposal has nothing to do with benefit of fisheries. It has everything to do with the State Parks trying to generate more money through entrance fees.
FWIW – Carp are on the list for Utah Lake. Did you look at the proposal? Did you make it to the end?
I think the next million dollar fish needs to be a small mouth from Jordanelle!
Sorry but the state parks will not hold a tagged fish tournament…
Why (they don’t have the money), where and how do you think the people that run the tournament get the money or boats to give away…
Why do they hold tournament any way???
Why dose BASS or WON BASS or the FLW hold the tournaments ??? Where do the prizes come from???
I hope you are right and the next $1,000,000 fish is a smallie from the nell, but who is going to put up the MONEY??? I want to see the MONEY…
[reply]
Sorry but the state parks will not hold a tagged fish tournament…
[/reply]
THEN WHY ARE THEY PROPOSING IT???
They don’t have to front the money. That’s what sponsors are for! How do you suppose BASS, WON BASS, or FLW come up with the money for tournaments? Out of their own pockets?
Think about this for a minute Cliff! The State Parks wouldn’t be proposing this if they didn’t intend to utilize it!!! THEY WILL HOLD TAGGED FISH TOURNAMENTS if this passes!
WIFES TALES…
They want the money from the permits and people that show up…
The good that could come from this is maybe we could get more fisherman on the water then water skiers…[;)][crazy]
“DWR is violently opposed to even giving the gizzard shad a try anywhere else.”
I do not believe that this has always been the case. I was told for a period of time the DWR tried to get approval to plant shad into Yuba Reservoir. The feds would never approve it because then there would be shad on both sides of Utah Lake that could easily be moved by the anglers to Utah Lake and in the process further impact the June Suckers. With all of the federal rules and regulations these days it is virtually impossible for the DWR to plant shad or anything similar in any bodies of water.
[reply]
Sorry but the state parks will not hold a tagged fish tournament…
Why (they don’t have the money), where and how do you think the people that run the tournament get the money or boats to give away…
Why do they hold tournament any way???
Why dose BASS or WON BASS or the FLW hold the tournaments ??? Where do the prizes come from???
I hope you are right and the next $1,000,000 fish is a smallie from the nell, but who is going to put up the MONEY??? I want to see the MONEY… [/reply]
Any dimwit can hold a million dollar tournament. Neither the state nor any sponsors have to put up any money except for the purchase of an insurance policy. There are several reputable insurances companies that will cover the money for events where someone catches a high dollor, tagged fish. Here are a few examples of Prize Insurance:
I don’t do this often, but Cliff has some valid points, but I think everyone should read the proposal before commenting. Maybe you should look at the visible means of identifying a participant at a 100 feet or look at the nuisance species certificate that you must have in your possession at all times. These things are for type 1 contests, yes weigh-in style bass tournaments. It sounds like a bunch of nonsense red-tape to get more money out of anglers.
your right it’s not a special interest group! it’s much worse!! it’s a diffrent branch of the same goverment. so why should they get any diffrent treatment then the addvrage Joe???
we had to wait for 1 year for the perch in yuba.
i dont think it will make or brake the park survice to wait a year for it to go through!! what’s the hurry any way?
dont get me wrong i dont have a thing agenst tournaments, i think they are great. but i think the DWR need to treat everyone the same!! 1 year let it be reveued by everyone that has something to say about it then put it to a vote.. is that not the way it supose to work?
I have just finished reading the posts about fish mortality after a tournament. I spoke with the biologist who is employeed by B.A.S.S.,(Bassmasters) about the mortality rates of bass after a tournamnet is held. I don’t remember his name as it has been a few years, however he has a Phd. and works full time with B.A.S.S. to improve the numbers of fish that survive after a tournament. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I can recall a few of the facts:
oh geeze…you are missing the whole point. If we were to allow special exemptions to BASS fishermen and allow them to hold fish in livewells, we would be INCREASING the chance that those fish would die. Why would we want that to happen? It doesn’t matter how much we increase it, the bottom line is that it would be increased over the faithful old catch and release. On a reservoir like Jordanelle where the DWR is protecting the larger/mature fish, that is vital. Jordanelle suffers from a major recruitment problem…we need to protect the mature fish. Why would we ever want to increase the mortality of those fish?
Also, some of our waters do reach surface temps of 80+ degrees…the southern waters especially (Quail, Gunlock, Sand Hollow)…aren’t these prime candidates for BASS tournaments? And, what water is being used in those livewells? Isn’t it the topwater…do most BASS boats have a refrigeration system that keeps the water cool? Also, FWIW, our state biologists disagree with the BASS biologist and believe that mortality in Utah would increase because of thermal shock associated with taking a fish from deeper cooler water and placing it in a livewell of warm surface water…
As for tagged fish tournaments, why would any of the BASS fishermen want this? A tagged tournament for smallmouth bass at Jordanelle could really put a dent in the number of trophy smallmouth…because every redneck with a worm is going to kill a lot of fish. These tagged fish tournaments could be helpful at a fishery like Yuba, but exceptionally detrimental to a fishery like Jordanelle that has recruitment problems…and, all they will do is increase traffic at the bass fishing spots–the skiers won’t go anywhere and the fishermen numbers will double, triple, possibly even quadruple…
[reply]
I would also like to point out one simple fact that nobody has mentioned. When is someone going to do a study on the motality rate of all the big ol’ smallies at jordanelle that are caught by the slobs on the bank using nightcrawlers and waiting for the hook to get near the end of the fish’s digestive system before reeling it in, and dragging it throught the rocks and dirt. Furthermore, how many of those fish end up in a cooler just so they can have the “excitement” of showing their big fish to anyone who will look at it. I do know for a fact that the mortality rate of these fish is a big fat 0%.[/reply]
This statement right here is EXACTLY why tagged fishing tournaments should not be allowed. As the proposal is currently written, there are no restrictions on who may enter a Tagged Fish Contest. Participants do NOT have to be identifiable, and they do not need to complete any training. ANYONE, including those individuals identified in the above quote (“slobs on the bank”) will be able to enter a Tagged Fish Contest held at Jordanelle for smallmouth bass!
So, with that in mind – I am completely confused as to why ANY bass angler would be excited or in favor of this proposal.
Hold a Tagged Fish Contest at Jordanelle and lets see how many of those “slobs from the bank”) show up and start catching bass on a nightcrawler. I wonder what the mortality will be on them? Cliff – you still in favor of this?
Wackmaster – call your friend from B.A.S.S. and ask him to compare the mortality rates of bass held in a live-well vs. bass immediately released. I have a sneaking suspicion that the immediately released bass have a much higher rate of survival than those held in a live-well.
[reply]. I do know for a fact that the mortality rate of these fish is a big fat 0%. I have seen this happen at Jordanelle and Pineview many, many, times. [/reply]
Now I am amazed…the mortality rate of these fish is 0%? Wouldn’t that mean that all those fish lived?[;)]
I’m guessing he meant “SURVIVAL RATE”. Gotta be careful when you post in the heat of emotion.
yeah…I understood. Just throwing at a harmless jab!
FWIW – Carp are on the list for Utah Lake. Did you look at the proposal? Did you make it to the end?
Ha…I’m not going to lie…I only skimmed through it… [angelic]
Careful. You will ruin your reputation. Not sure we are programmed to allow “harmless” jabs.
Have any of you read the min. of the spring meeting or the fall meeting???
This was talked about at both…
The RAC wanted more INFO on bass tournaments how the tagged part got in I don’t know, but what I have heard from those that had input that is why this is still in the works…