New Utah Tournaments Proposal

Utah Fishing Reports & Discussion Utah Fishing General
21

:sunglasses:Good input. There is no denying that without the organized efforts of the dedicated bass chasers that there would be a lot fewer bass and less bass fishing in Utah. It is also a given that bass tournaments bring additional dollars to the coffers of DWR, State Parks and the hospitality and food industries within the areas of the tournaments.

I have no arguments with tournaments, per se. The biggest obstacles are Utah and the Utah DWR. Utah is not a “warm water” state. All of our bass ponds are at a much higher altitude and have far less forage and shorter growing seasons than the best tournament lakes in other parts of the country. That is an unavoidable reality. Combine that with Utah not having a warm water hatchery system, to supplement angler harvest and natural mortality, and you have lakes that cannot withstand heavy tournament action indefinitely. Until Utah evolves to include bass hatcheries and effective bass management in the subject lakes, making the WRONG moves could hurt your own playgrounds.

I also favor having live weigh-ins. That is what the tradition of bass tournaments is all about. It is hard to generate the same competition and excitement with a piece of paper as you can by lifting your final day’s catch after the scales show you to be the big winner. That also eliminates the potential for “fudging”. Of course, no respectable fisherman would ever try to cheat the system…but all of the others still suspect them. It is more fun to just let the scales tell the tale and not live in paranoia.

The slot limits on some of our lakes are a double edged sword for tournament anglers. Having them in place is about the only insurance that there will be larger bass to be caught. But, if they are not relaxed for tournaments, it knocks the heck out of the thrill of being able to show off your biggies back at the dock. And, isn’t that a big part of what a tournament is all about?

Make no mistake guys. I am not against bass fishing or tournaments. Like others have expressed, I find fault mainly with the system for making regulations and implementing them without allowing those they affect to have more REAL input in how they are worded and enforced.

PEACE OUT.

22

YOUR MISSING THE POINT!!! the point is that The DRW wound not change the Reg for a special interest group last year! why should they this year ??? i’m thinking there might be some grounds for a law sute hear if this go’s through..

i dont care how much volunteer work a special interest group dose!! still does NOT GIVE THEM SPECIAL RIGHTS ON PUBLIC LAND OR WATER!!!

23

Kinda like LH2 said the state is slowly pricing us working class out of the hunting, fishing and camping. Not to mention the 3.00 $ a galon for gas when you are putting it in a large truck, or boat. It is going to cut down on the recreation. I think it is crappy the way they are skating this by the process.

24

“The response I have received is that they are not going to change the rules for any special interest group”

That is the funniest thing I have heard on this board. Does the idiot who said this know Don Peay?

25

Tournaments are not for only special groups…

Any and all can fish the tournaments…

And why is it always said that this is not a warm water state???

Who says ???

Look across this country look at all the lakes that have bass and trout, What makes one water bass or trout???

Why are the fisherman in this state trying to tell each other what fish can go in what water???

What is wrong with more then one type of fish in a lake???

Why ???

Well just because you don’t like one type of fish, you don’t want any others in the lake, thats DUM… Look at it this way for a min. if every one only fished for trout and kepted all they caught how many big fish would their be left…

I have heard that Utah is not a warm water state all my years by the DWR and in the past (fish and game) to keep bass and waleye and all the other fish BUT TROUT out so the people that raise trout can sell them…

Wives tales??? how many of you heard this said or used, well that is what I call to some one saying that we don’t have warm water …

Or that all of our lakes are too high…(some are to high)

Waite look at the hole picture, our water is both warm and cold we have the best of both worlds…In the south they don’t have trout waters and in the north they don’t have bass or blue gills or the other (warm water fish) but we do we can have it all…

The only thing we have that hurts our fishery is lack of WATER our lakes and streams goes up and down every year and that takes all or most of the cover we need in our lakes…

Tournaments would help all of us?? How ask why the bass people keep trying to find some kind of (thing) that we can put in our lakes for cover for the fish, No its not just for bass or warm water fish its for all fish…

Some can’t see why bass tournament people should be able to bring bass in and weigh them and all fisherman can’t do the same, think no THINK in a tournament the fish are NOT KILLED they are let go after the weigh-in not killed and taken home…

Some say it brings more fishing purser?? Look at the Berry no tournaments there but you still have fishing purser there…

Most of the tournament that you will see at Jordanelle and Deercreek or any other small lake is 15 to 20 boats at the most you may see alot more on lakes like Utah lake or the other two that get all the bigger tournaments now Lake Powell and the Gorge…

I have fished in tournaments all over the country and none have ever hurt the fishery, but a lot have sure helped a lot of lakes…

26

[reply][pirate]
First of all, in response to the special interest group remark. If they knew some of their own history, it is the BASS Clubs that are called upon to do volunteer work, in fact, it was tournament Bass anglers who worked with the DWR in the early days to help them transplant bass to many of the lakes that we enjoy today. Many hours have been donated by this “special interest group” helping the DWR with habitat projects, lake clean ups, and promotion of conservation and fishing in general. For all the time and energy donated to improving our waters, tournament guys are just asking for the opportunity to have a fair tournament on some of the great fisheries in Utah. [/reply]

So, since I spend countless hours in my summers helping with DWR projects like gillnetting, egg taking, and electroshocking, I should have some special exemptions to rules as well? Cool, maybe I can get the DWR to allow me to harvest some of the bass in Jordanelle because I contribute to good causes…Do we “volunteer” our time and efforts for pay or something in return?

[reply][pirate] Finally, Bass tournament anglers are conversationalists. They have a love and passion for the Bass they pursuit. The last thing they would want is to do something that would ruin a fishery or kill off the Bass. Changing the regulations with regards to Bass tournaments would only improve the great fishing the State of Utah has to offer.
[/reply]

Hmmm…a 100 tournament study in Wisconsin showed that 25% of fish released from live wells ultimately die…25% seems like a large sacrifice for a unnecessary showing-off of fish.

I am 100% against any special exemptions given to special interest groups and I am 100% against the idea that an individual or group should be allowed exemptions to laws simply because they contribute to a good cause…

27

[reply]
Hmmm…a 100 tournament study in Wisconsin showed that 25% of fish released from live wells ultimately die…25% seems like a large sacrifice for a unnecessary showing-off of fish.
[/quote]
Heh, I’ve got news for ya…do you want the real stats on that? The truth is that 100% of fish released from live wells “ultimately” die. I’m afraid that scientists have yet to breed the immortal bass. I don’t see any sources or details for this study saying how this test was conducted and over what length of time…or how it was proven that it was due to the fact that these fish were kept in live wells. It also seems to me that with how cold that water is in Wisconsin that practically 25% of the bass would die just from winter! That of course is probably a stretch, but you get the point. I am by no means a fisheries biologist that knows the exact numbers for these things, but I would imagine that due to the relative short lifespan of most game fish, there is a significant amount of the population of almost any species that dies every year just from natural causes.

28

[reply]
Heh, I’ve got news for ya…do you want the real stats on that? The truth is that 100% of fish released from live wells “ultimately” die. I’m afraid that scientists have yet to breed the immortal bass. [/reply]
Hah…true. But, I think you got the point. Tournament caught fish that have been kept in a livewell have a higher mortality rate than fish immediately released.

[reply]
I don’t see any sources or details for this study saying how this test was conducted and over what length of time…or how it was proven that it was due to the fact that these fish were kept in live wells. It also seems to me that with how cold that water is in Wisconsin that practically 25% of the bass would die just from winter! That of course is probably a stretch, but you get the point. [/reply]

I will try to get the study and send you a copy…but, in the meantime, it’s just my experience that when you collect fish from a depth where the water is cold and put them in a live well where the water comes from the surface, you are going to experience a high rate of thermal shock. Wisconsin is mostly natural lakes that are shallow and uniform in temperature. Out here in the west in our reservoirs, we have greater depth and fish utilize the cooler water and unless we had some kind of refrigeration system, I think we would have a greater mortality rate.

[reply] I am by no means a fisheries biologist that knows the exact numbers for these things, but I would imagine that due to the relative short lifespan of most game fish, there is a significant amount of the population of almost any species that dies every year just from natural causes. [/reply]

True…but why speed up the process? Many, if not most, of those fish kept in livewells would live to be caught again by another fisherman. Again, the mortality rates of bass/fish released from livewells is much higher than those immediately released.

Also, sexual maturity in Bass–specifically largemouth bass is largely dependent on water temperature. Largemouth bass in Canada, for example, sometimes do not reach maturity until their 5th year. The average life span for bass is around 10 years. So, why would we want to increase their mortality rates in such a cold state or in cold environs?

29

I am not going to try and say that the mortality rate for fish kept in livewells is NOT greater than those immediately released. However, there are many more factors that take place than merely just keeping them in a live well. Like was mentioned…factors such as depth that the fish was caught, temperatures, etc. There are definitely certain conditions in which the mortality rate for tournament fish goes up significantly…however, this is not the majority of the time. And the times in which that mortality rate DOES go up, many tournament organizations have come up with precautionary techniques that can greatly bring that rate back down. Like was mentioned in an earlier response, bass fishing organizations and their members are at the front lines of conservation. Many of the tournament organizations now are using additives in the holding tanks for the fish at weigh-ins. I have seen studies supposedly showing that bass being held in waters with these nutrient additives actually end up being *healthier *after the tournament than they were before. I have also fished tournaments where the tournament directors passed out small packets of these additives so anglers could put them in their own livewells. Anyways…all I’m trying to say is that there are many ways that we can deal with the concerns that come with live weigh ins.
As far as the concern that was brought up about us having deeper waters here in the west and that having something to do with a higher mortality rate…I don’t buy it. California has got deeper lakes than we do where bass tournaments are held regularly and those are the lakes that I have 100 fish days on…
I just speak from my own personal experiences and results that I’ve personally seen…not much scientific backing…of course, science has seemed to be wrong a lot throughout history…we were pretty convinced the world was flat once…

30

here are some links to sites that talk about fish mortality and tournament caught fish:

http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/tournament_mortality_bass,_crappie_&_walleye.htm

www.vabass.com/Features/2002/October.htm - 15k

31

The only problems is that most tournaments do NOT require nor do they mandate the use of these additives or measures…Mike Iaconelli is probably the best example of this–a high-profile tournament angler who killed his entire catch in one tournament because he does NOT use these things.

The bottom line is that live well released fish have a higher mortality rate than fish that are immediately released. On a reservoir like Jordanelle where the DWR is trying to protect trophy-sized fish, why would we ever want to increase the mortality rate of these fish? It makes absolutely no sense…

…and in response to some states doing it…well, just because California has tournaments, doesn’t mean that they don’t have very high mortality rates of fish released from live wells.

32

Bobber I don’t know where you got your INFO from about the life of a bass (10 years) sorry to pop your bobber but that is avage life witch means 50% die before 10 years and 50% live a lot longer bass have been know to live up to 20+ years in the wild…And all depends on what part of the country you look at…

Most of what you say is WIFES TALES…Have you heard of that…

33

And only parts of what you say about Mike is true…

He was in a boat that was not his and did not know how to run the live well…

And in a tournament all that I have fished or heard of for bass you have to keep your bass a live it is in the rules…Not WIFES TALES truths…

34

You kill me, Cliff, you are helping make my argument…if many Bass even live longer, then it is all the more reason NOT to kill them in a tournament. What a waste…

Also, bass tournaments have rules about not killing fish before the weigh-in…what about the fish that die the day after the weigh-in because they were held in a live well? I have NEVER seen a tournament disqualify or punish a fishermen for these dead fish…yet, study after study shows that these fish are dieing. Have you done any research at all on what happens to fish released from livewells?

But, the mortality of fish released from livewells is only part of the equation…what about tagged bass tournaments that anyone can enter. ie Sand Hollow, Quail Creek, Gunlock, and Jordanelle. Thats what worries me…How will having thousands of Redneck fishermen looking to win a new Bass Boat or a few thousand dollars chasing Bass at these reservoirs affect the fishing?

35

WIFES TALES …

Who says they die???

Some people like PETA and other so called people have said about what you have said just a bunch of BULL …

BASS and others have kept all bass from at leased 5 tournament that was studied for 3 weeks and one group was studied for over 6 weeks and all bass that died was checked to see why they died …

that and other reports is where the stats come from yes BASS and FLW tournaments and others can brag of a 99.8% of bass live… Not WIFES TALES just the truth…

Where are they (they) who is they , and what if’s Like I said WIFES TALES, where have you ever heard of a bass large mouth or small mouth tagged tournament at or when ???

And who are you to call us fisherman red necks?? WELL Ok my neck has had a sun burn a few times…I say again

WIFES TALES…truth not lies…

36

The bass tournament, livewell issue isn’t an issue. The proposal has that taken care of. Tournaments will be forced to abide by the current regulations of the water.

The issue is tagged fish tournaments. Tagged fish tournaments will involve MANY more fishermen than a regular tournament. Mortality will be greater due to the number of fishermen (bait anglers from shore?) involved.

Not to mention the that the proper process wasn’t followed for the proposal.

37

Aw, you just had to come and put an end to our fun didn’t you, PBH? haha. [:)] jk
The only point that I was trying to make with the whole livewell thing is this…live weigh in tournaments have not seemed to hurt the country’s best bass fisheries…nor has increased fishing pressure. You can give numbers all you want, but what matters to me is what I actually experience out on the water. My best days of bass fishing, and most of the biggest bass I have caught have come from the most pressured bodies of water in the country. My best day of bassin’ ever was on Lake Okechobee in FL…a lake where MANY big tournaments have been held for several years. I caught 115 bass from 2-7lbs in just 3.5 hrs. Many of my bass over 8lbs have been caught from the California Delta and Clear Lake. They have tournaments nearly every weekend. This is the only point I’m trying to make and I just keeping getting numbers and studies back in response. Now would these fisheries be even better if live weigh in tournaments were NOT held on them? I personally don’t think they’d get much better…they’re already great. Anyhow, pretty sure that’s all I have to say on that topic…

Now with the tagged fish contests…it is most definitely dependent upon the body of water and the species of fish being targeted. In my mind, the only reason to have a tagged fish contest is in order to promote the harvest of a certain species. For example, years ago when they had the million dollar fish contest with Stripers in Lake Powell. I think that was a totally appropriate thing to do. That place was swarming with stripers and there was some definite harvesting that needed to take place. I think the next million dollar fish contest needs to be for Carp on Utah Lake. har har!

38

:sunglasses:In the big “tournament” lakes, there is a vast difference in the food available for bass, compared to Utah. We do not have any lakes with shad, big shiners, lots of stunted sunfish, or the host of other forage species many of those lakes have. It takes a lot of food to grow and support a lot of bass. Even where we have crawdads there are not enough anymore to keep bass well fed…at least in the northern Utah lakes. And look at the structure. Most popular bass lakes are full of weed beds, blown down trees and lots of other cover for the small fry to survive long enough to grow big. Our lakes are mostly barren bowls with water levels that fluctuate too much and too often to maintain that kind of cover.

Also, in the Florida and Texas lakes bass feed and grow all year. Only about a six month active period in Utah.

There are a lot of differences and tournaments are not the same for Utah and other parts of the country.

39

Well, that was the best argument that I’ve heard so far…haha…good work tube dude… [:)]

40

:sunglasses:Glad you agree. As you probably know, I have fished most of those lakes myself, and I have seen the differences in the basic ecology. In some places there are acres of shad in big schools, there for the taking. Here in Utah it is uncommon to catch a bass with a fat gut, much less with tails of baitfish sticking out of their mouths. Hard to make a living for our poor Utah basses.

There is also a lot of difference in the sizes of the lakes. You could lose a hundred boats on Okeechobee but twenty boats on Jordanelle would be fighting for a spot to fish most of the day. And the sheer numbers of fish are vastly different. Hundred fish days on some of the big lakes, for one person or one team, would not be too far out. On Jordanelle it would be highly unlikely that 20 boats would get 50% limits on any given tournament…and there would only be a few larger fish.

I’ll bet you wish you were closer to Clear Lake these days. Rasslin’ toads in shirt sleeves is better than dredgin’ for dinks while wearing snowmobile suits.