Hook, Line and Sinker Discussion

Utah Fishing Forum Utah Fishing General
1

Inspired by one of Tube Dudes responses in another thread I
thought I’d start one to help those who may be novice to more
casual anglers. Although I consider myself to be a very avid and
serious (sometimes too serious) angler, I don’t pretend to have all
the answers and still learn plenty from others. So I’ll leave it to
others to fill in my gaps. Remember, this is for the novice or casual
angler to help him or her improve their experience.

I don’t really want to get into rods and reels in this discussion but
focus on the simple stuff that is so easy to ignore or skimp on such
as line, knots, and hooks. Haven’t seen much discussion on this for awhile now. It amazes me, like Tube Dude, how many anglers there are that buy the cheepest equipment they can find and don’t take any care of it and get mad when it doesn’t work.

Line – Line is certainly one of the most important parts of your
equipment. It literally connects you to your quarry. DON’T SKIMP
ON IT! Your asking for disappointment if you do. Cheep junk line,
the $2.99 special at Wally World isn’t worth a dime. Invest your
money on quality line such as Trilene, Suffix, Stren, etc.. If you’re a
casual angler you don’t need to worry about superlines,
fluorocarbons or nanofil. Just get a good quality monofiliment.
Lighter line (2 to 8 lb) works best for smaller lures and heavy line
(10 lb+) is better for larger lures. It has to do with how limp and
straight the line is comming off the reel. For typical trout and panfish 4 to 6 lb test line is my choice for most situations. Bass, walleye and larger trout I choose 6 to 12 lb test line for most situations.

Monofiliment needs to be stored out of sunlight and it must be
changed every now and then. If you only fish once a month you
might get away with every other year but I recommend putting new
line on at least annually. I change mine out at least semi-annually
and high use line quarterly. Check the last foot or two after catching fish or getting snagged and retie if you feel any damged line. After every trip check the last several yards for damage and trim damaged line.

Knots – I’m stunned how many anglers connect their lures with
simple overhand knots, square knots, slip knots or other unique
tangled creations. The knot is the weakest part connecting you to
the fish, you need to get this part right so you don’t lose that fish of a life time right at the net. I’ve been fishing for 40 years and I like to keep it simple. I use a few knots for virtually all my fishing needs. Do a web search for “fishing knots” and you will find plenty of resources explaining and showing how to tie them.

For line to lure or hook I use the Trilene knot, improved clinch knot, palomar knot and a loop knot I don’t know the name of. Most of these retain 90%+ line strength when tied correctly. Be sure to
moisten the line wraps before tightening, this allows the knot to
tighten with less friction that can damage the knot. The finished knot should look pretty crisp and clean, not lumpy and ragged. Don’t be affraid to test its strength. If it breaks easily (much less than the line test weight) you tied it wrong and you would have lost your fish and tackle causing you to wax eloquent with profanity offending many within earshot. Test your knots.

For line to line connections I like the uni knot and the blood knot.
Hooks – Cheep hooks are nothing but trouble. They are dull and
they bend or break easily. While I don’t think you need Trokar hooks at over $1 each you would serve yourself well to buy hooks or lures with hooks made by Eagle Claw, Mustad, Gamakatsu, VMC among others. Stay away from Danielson and South Bend nickle and dime hooks.

Sinkers – I like lead. I don’t like steel or tin and, although I’m sure
it’s great stuff, I can’t afford tungston. I don’t subscribe to global
warming or “humans are destroying the world” so I’ll use lead as
long as it’s legal.

Feel free to add your 0.02 cents or ask questions. I’ll take PM’s if
you’re too shy to ask on the open forum.

2

I’m not worried about lead in the environment either, but tungsten has its place. It is more dense, and sinks faster.

⫸<{{{{⦇°>

3

Amen, brother!

WAY too much emphasis is put on rods, reels and lures - when the ONLY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN YOU AND THE FISH are hooks and line. Ironically, those are the least expensive part of the equation, yet that’s where some folks “cheap out.”

Buy $1.99 bulk spools of mono and no-name discount hooks and you’ll lose fish. Period.

4

Amen, brother!

WAY too much emphasis is put on rods, reels and lures - when the ONLY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN YOU AND THE FISH are hooks and line. Ironically, those are the least expensive part of the equation, yet that’s where some folks “cheap out.”

Buy $1.99 bulk spools of mono and no-name discount hooks and you’ll lose fish. Period.

Can we talk Fly Fishing…LOL Rod Reel combo $29. a good fly line $79. And that is just floating…
I totally agree however, Line, Leader, Tippet, fly/lure is what gets the fish.
However, I am not an advocate of lead..see no good come from it, but it’s Cheap![;)]

5

I’ve got a $12 ugly stick combo with $35 line on it and fish a $25 top water. It walks the dog like no other. All the expense rods I own and this works for this app. The guys I fish with giggle every time.

6

I could be wrong but the novice/casual angler, which this thread is targeted for, isn’t going to shell out $80 for fly line or $1000 for a rod and reel when they won’t even buy good mono. Furthermore, I won’t shell out that kind of cash any more for fly fishing either. If I have to, I buy Cortland 333 if I can find it but I’ve found other ways to effectively present a fly that drives my fly fishing “snob” friends nuts especially when I catch as many as they do.

7

Great write up. These are things that beginners and casual fisherman must truly master to take the next step.

Something I would like to learn more about is entomology and the biology of the streams -and lakes- in Utah (especially the Provo). I had the east coast on lock. I learned so much in college that I could apply to fishing there. Then, I came out here to the wild west and I am like a toddler suckin’ the binky. I am in the dark when it comes to what flies to use when, how to identify certain insects and other essential trout catching techniques.

Hopefully someone gives some buggy insight soon [;)] cough** pictures *** cough

The dropper loop knot is a super easy knot with many applications-- making leaders, dropshot rigs, sabikis and tandem bottom rigs to name a few.

8

Best fishing line out there is wal-mart cheap crap, Shakespeare it is, I have caught countless larger fish with it. I have used cheap gear and expensive, it’s the same with guns and boats and cars, it depends on what you prefer. Period.
I prefer expensive rods and reels , but use cheap line, it fits my mold and my OCD fix to constantly replace the line I’m using after a nice fish has been caught. Swivels and knots are a different story, you can defiantly screw up on fish dismissing the importance.

It’s all albeit putting the time in to fugue out what works, not using a set up yah has sit in garage for a year and thinking it will hold

9

Good thread.

  1. I like the Excaliber silver thread copolymer for bass/warmwater fishing, vertical jigging cutts, and ice fishing. Very tough stuff, yet casts well. Haven’t busted it off yet on a biggun. Sadly, it is getting harder to find now. For light spinning reels I will take into the high country, I use p-line flouroclear (flourocarbon coated). Casts a mile but has the properties of pure flourocarbon without the handling difficulties. Those are all I use on my ice and spinning gear. For leaders and tippet for flyfishing I use pretty much only use flourocarbon. Just seems to be the best for these applications.

  2. Knots. I guess I’m a simpleton. For bassin and large hooks, I’ll use a Palomar knot. Not difficult to tie and is one of the strongest knots one can tie. It also can allow you to set up a dropshot rig if bassin. For flies and small jigs and lures, I use a modified clinch knot. I tie a couple more knots when fishing on the fly, but thats about it for me.

  3. I’m a lead guy. Haven’t seen the need to change yet.

10

I know that you’re talking hook, line, and sinker here, but if there were a weak link that most novices overlook its the drag on a reel. Set up wrong and all the high dollar line you can throw money at won’t matter for a hill of beans, hooks either for that matter. I don’t care about brands and cost of the reel ( I have my own favorites), but a smooth non-sticky drag is essential if you hook into a decent fish. The cheap Walmart line is still adequate for most situations if the drag functions smooth.
I don’t think I’ve had too many actual broken lines from the quality of the line making the difference, but I’ve had many fish lost due to the hook tearing out because the drag wasn’t set up properly or it functioned poorly.

I’d say if a person had to skimp where they could they should at least invest in a reel with a decent drag. They can be had for $30 bucks or less and if the budget is tight after that, go with cheaper line and terminal gear for the time being.

I think a good rod is a luxury, but a cheap one works just fine and is probably the least important link between your arm and the fishes mouth. Buy what you can afford at the moment. I have several clearance rods that have served my family well for years and I can’t think of a single fish lost due to the rod failing.

My opinion only, but over 40 years of being a psycho fishing addict has taught me a thing or two about my gear and how to fish on the cheep!

11

I’ve got a $12 ugly stick combo with $35 line on it and fish a $25 top water. It walks the dog like no other. All the expense rods I own and this works for this app. The guys I fish with giggle every time.

I’m starting to wonder a bit about the guys you fish with! Maybe a little too much /He/ fumes in boat? Does your reel glow when it spins (giggle if you want, I have a couple- and they are pretty fun in an ice tent!)

It’s a fine discussion, but as FG jumps in to fling her 2c, and you see from others - so many factors. I think they real missed point is regarding what kind of fish you are targeting, and what style of fishing you are doing.

Pitching, jigging, woking dawgs, vs spinning, chucking deep raps. Then there’s vertical jigging, or giving up on the slime rockets, and going after some REEL fish like catfish! Then you may want to put away your mono and step up to a braid, or fireline- something with less stretch and give. DEEP jigging you don’t want a mono-stretch, or you’ll never get a hookset to stick.

Fly fishing is a whole nother story in lines, reels, creels and equipment. There’s a another board for that even.

Point being - good tips, but it’s hard to generalize. I don’t use my panfish setups for TigerMusky, though some of the musky I’ve wrangled didn’t get the memo. I’ve caught crappie on my bass setups and bass on my crappie rigs - equal opportunity fishing as I see it. If a Walleye wants to play, I’m not gonna say “no way”.

As for hooks, lines, and sinkers - also to consider rigging setups: Floats, sliding sinkers, drop shots - where’s the weight, and where’s the hookups to happen.

For flashback Thursday - I picked up this Huck-n-Fin style rod, at deep discount. Don’t expect it’ll be long before I’ve snapped a tip. But maybe the panfish’ll play. I’ve got some old Perch poles - long as a surf fishing rod.

[inline “100_2320 - 400.jpg”]

Though I don’t subscribe to the “get the lead out” fan club, I’d suggest if you don’t believe in global warming - or that humans have an impact on the world’s environment - you haven’t done enough educating, and probably should. Knot to start a flame war, but as a man of science - I’d say - get a clue or two.

I don’t subscribe to global warming or “humans are destroying the world” so I’ll use lead as
long as it’s legal. I dunno, maybe you’d vote for this guy:
[inline “Global Warming Wind Power.jpg”]

12

Where exactly does one purchase an Uglystik for 12.00? I saved up by going w/o deoderant and using Dawn instead of shampoo and finally afforded o e for 50.00 last year! 12.00 would mame it possible to several more this year.

13

Big K

14

Thanks, Coyotespinner, I was a out to have to be the first. I totally agree with everything said about knots and line. But there Is vastly more evidence of global warming being real and human caused than there is the other way around. All the data ponts that direction. There is no controversy among real scientists. The correlations are stronger than those data that indicate tobacco causes little lung cancer.

The opponents of the science are pundits, lobbyists, politicians, and 1% -ers getting rich by hurting other people by harming the world environment for profit.

15

All the data being SHOWN indicates it, yes. But ALL the data, including the huge amounts being suppressed to further an agenda would show the opposite. You can cherry-pick (or fabricate) data to “prove” anything.

Climate does indeed change; dozens of ice-warm ages prove that. But every one of them happened without human influence.

(I didn’t start this off-topic tirade but I couldn’t ignore a hoax being proclaimed as fact.)

16

Climate change has been around since the beginning, it’s called weather. We are to be good stewards, but for man to think he caused it is egotistical. One volcanic eruption totally screws up all man has done. We live on a living constantly changing planet. I’m all for green, but oil allows for the lifestyle we all enjoy. Don’t know how’d I’d catch a sturgeon with a stick?

17

But neither of you guys THINK humans are NOT destructive? Seriously? Look at the air here in Salt Lake! Little turns into a lot very easy.

And back on post, I would say 98% of new comer fly fishers HERE on BFT would never buy that $1,000. rod. And I agree when it comes to Graphite. I think the price of Graphite is uncalled for and crazy.
No, they buy the rod and reel under $100. Again, nothing wrong with that. It is the LINE that is needed.
We need to meet up with your 333 and I will bring Sharkskin. You will be amazed!

18

You are on the wrong end of the hoax. Remember we had this discussion 20 years from now. Current, rapid climate change is demonstrably human caused and no REAL research is being suppressed that shows otherwise. I wish I could say it more respectfully, since you have always seemed like such a good guy, but that argument is silly. It keeps popping up, and when examined, falls apart instantly. Last time I heard it, some crackpot pseudo scientist had somehow gotten a paper published In a journal, but his research was funded by Exxon, and his method was laughable. Humans do affect our environment, understanding that is not egotistical, it is demonstrable.

At one point someone looked out and said “Man, we’ll neverbe able to kill all those buffalo!” But we almost did. This is not just another cycle. Things are changing faster than they ever have, ever, since life existed on earth, except for the known cataclysmic major eruptions and asteroid impacts which caused widespread extinction events and rapid climate change. The last vote on the official stance of climate, geological, and weather scientists from all over the world was several thousand to three. It’s not just global temps, it is what is underlying the changes.

It’s not a hoax. I believed as you do until I started looking at both sides, getting my news from several sources. It was so obvious once I lost my bias. I now admit freely I have a different bias, but I have not seen, heard, or read anything in the last five yearsthat holds any water against the theory.

PM me any link you want about this supressed science that disagrees with the concencus of the scienticic community, and I promise to read the whole thing with open mind and eyes.

19

All the data being SHOWN indicates it, yes. But ALL the data, including the huge amounts being suppressed to further an agenda would show the opposite. You can cherry-pick (or fabricate) data to “prove” anything.

Climate does indeed change; dozens of ice-warm ages prove that. But every one of them happened without human influence.

(I didn’t start this off-topic tirade but I couldn’t ignore a hoax being proclaimed as fact.)

Um, those changes happened before there were humans. To think WE don’t have an impact is naive.

Do you believe Carbon dating is a hoax, and that the earth is some 4000 years old, as described on a scroll written by a human some centuries ago?

There are SCIENTIFIC studies done by the science community, then there are “STUDIES” done by non-science based sorts. Those that will simply discount any of the scientific facts that go against their own beliefs (vs theories). Don’t wanna believe the earth is 4.5 Billion years old, ok - lets just discount carbon dating. There, done.
Do I dare start into Evil-lution, and all those “myths” about monkies?
I’m with Springbuck, appreciate you as an angler, and a sensible voice amongst the forum’s chaos, but not on this one. I’d still fish with you, we just have to agree not to talk politics or religion.

Baseball is always ok, but then I’ll get giggled at for being a die-hard Cubby fan. Talk about misplaced faith! Jazz fan too, but Jordan pushed off THAT’S A FACT JACK!

[inline “First Politician.jpg”]

Climate change has been around since the beginning, it’s called weather. We are to be good stewards, but for man to think he caused it is egotistical. One volcanic eruption totally screws up all man has done. We live on a living constantly changing planet. I’m all for green, but oil allows for the lifestyle we all enjoy. Don’t know how’d I’d catch a sturgeon with a stick?

Bzzt. Sorry - global climate change is NOT the same as weather. Are there bigger badder causes than humans? Hell yeah. We’d be arrogant to think otherwise, but that’s part of the problem - our arrogance. I’m not against oil, but oil-companies, oil industry - that’s a different story. Lets talk renewable vs non-renewable resources. Fish are renewable, oil is not. (well, maybe in a couple more billion years, when OUR remains turn to black gold, Texas tea.)

Are there alternative power sources? Yes. Are they available - no, and why? Oil and oil lobbyists. Simple as that. Ask little George - they had HIM in their back pocket.

Cavemen didn’t have Trilene at Walmart to choose from, or rifles and shotguns - even if ammo supplies are becoming extinct. Yet - they made a “living” off the land. Sticks, stones, and broken bones - yes yes and yes.

I’m done, stepping off my soapbox. Time to play with my evolved dog.

20

WOW! It only took one page for someone to take off on my global warming comment. “Hook, Line and Sinker” has transformed into “The End,” and I think its time this thread ended before the world does.

Anyone know either of these fine “scientists” and/or politicians? Perhaps voted for one of them – multiple times?

In 1988 Ted Danson said We had ten years to save the oceans; we were all going to pay the consequences, which would result in our death.

In 2006 Al Gore said, “We’ve got ten years.” Ten years left to save the planet from a scorching. We have 1 year 323 days left!!!

Don’t get me started on education or politics NOT on this forum. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on those topics. Let’s just stay FFF, Fishing Friends Forever[:p] Kumbaya and all that rot.