As for all the dissenters and people who have their ‘own’ opinions - I don’t see why you can’t just take his expert advice and opinion on this matter. I don’t get how you think that you know more than the guy who does this stuff for a living.
you answered your own statement in the form of a statment lol. and where is anyone saying they know any better than Drew? but thats just your opinion right?
Drew, I think you guys know what you are doing a lot more than any of us “experts” I would like to see the DWR do what they think is best for the fishery. Let the anglers whine about it till they start seeing results and stick their foots in their mouths. Thats what happened at Strawberry.
I also think you should place signs at DC encouraging harvest of small bass. They need thining out.
Oh and I think you should plant those Triploid Pike you have at Lee Kay into Yuba and continue the proccess until they help fight off the carp… Just my .02
I was just making it clear that Drew might not have all the answers or know everything there is to know - it is his opinion. You don’t have to agree with him. His opinion is more meaningful to me because of his background - thats what I was trying to say. Not everyone has to agree with that though. I was just trying to hint at how obvious I think it is. I usually don’t trust legal or medical advice unless it is from a lawyer or doctor. Likewise I usually trust fish biologists on the matter of fish biology.
I just wanted to say thanks! I have some really good input from everyone on this issue. I will store the feedback and use it as we go through this process. I think it is amazing how the anglers and their habits have changed over the passt 10 years. Utah anglers have gone from an overall harvest rate on all species of 75% to an overall harvest rate of 30%. This is quite a turn around. Life must be like a pendulum swinging from side to side and we, in ten years have gone from a largely consumptive group to a largely conservation minded group. The middle is where we need set our sites.
Thanks for your feedback and feel free to contact me at any time.
Drew
I would like to see the new warm water fish hatchery at Lee Kay producing smallies as well as largemouth bass. I don’t know whether they do or not right now, as I live in St. George and only get to read a few articles about it. I like the slot limit at Quail. I catch a lot of fish between the 10" - 20" range that all go back into the lake. Most of the time I don’t bring home any fish from Quail, I just like the quality fish I catch there. When I fish Sand Hollow I do keep fish to eat. There are so many 10" fish there that I don’t feel bad bringing them home for dinner. The over 12" I generally save for a fish that would likely die if I returned it to the lake but other than that I return the larger fish.
We need to keep lake specific regulations in my opinion. Utah doesn’t have the overall quality bass fisheries as in other states. The lakes close to the Wasatch front could get wiped out very quickly if the size restrictions were lifted.
Maybe the goal will be to remove more of the small fish by increaseing the limit of fish caught under the 10" mark. I like the idea of allowing one trophy size fish to be taken as well, current state record minus 2" for example.
All waters are different and should be treated different. Having state wide rules sounds easy on paper. **Enforcement of fishing rules isn’t a priority. The Rangers and the fish cops have other responsibilities than to check every angler or boat.
Our bass fisheries are selfsustaining, meaning the bodies of water aren’t stocked. The removal of 20 inchers won’t help. We can’t take our genetic superior fish out of the lakes. It takes a long time to grow big the fish. Plus, those newer waters are losing the nutrients that help those big fish grow so large.
We may have just gone through the golden days of Jordanelle and Sand Hollow is just starting to peak now. Killing off the brood stock is the answer.
CPR works fine. Let the big’uns go **
If you could make Bass or Brown trout taste better I might keep a few.
Really, I just don’t like the taste, I thought that was why BASS picked the bass as it’s tourney fish so many years ago. Fun to catch and tasted bad, perfect combo for a tourney catch and release fish.
Ever notice how there is never any problem getting people to keep Walleye, Crappie, Catfish and Perch? If they can catch them and they are big enough, keepers!
I think it is awesome that someone who manages some of the waters in Utah gets on here and discusses these issues and asks for input from all of us. Whether you agree with it or not at least he is on here making an effort to hear your opinions and insights.
I wish someone from the G/F in my state was interacting with us on some of our state fishing boards. You guys are lucky.
With all the fisherman now days fishing for bass hook mortality takes its tolls on the bigger bass, no one but the ones that want to keep and eat the bigger fish is wanting to keep them…
Bassrods, is it possible that out of the thousands of bass you catch in a year you may be killing more bass with “hook mortality” than the lucky guy who takes home a half dozen for dinner?
Thanks for this info Drew, I can finally eat bass guilt free and take them home proud instead of hiding them from other fisherman.
On some waters that does not get much fishing away from the Wasatch front a limit of six bass may work, but places like Jordanelle, Deer creek, Pineview and others can and would be fished out of any big bass cause of the slow growth and numbers of fishermen that fish them…
Jordanelle is known for its big bass but if the DWR lets the bass over 12" to be taken home the lake will only have small bass left…
These types of quotes kill me…Bassrods, what you are showing is a complete lack of understanding of what is happening at our bass lakes. And, again, it goes back to simple fisheries biology…to put it in Drew’s words: “As most of you know fisheries are like cookie jars. They can only hold so many cookies and those cookies can either be a bunch of cookie crumbs or some really nice cookies.”
In other words, if more fish are harvested in many of our lakes, bass growth would increase and we would have more cookies and fewer cookie crumbs. Right now, though, the reason we have slow bass growth is because we have too many fish fighting for the limited food base. If you decrease the number of fish, more food is available for fewer fish hence faster fish growth.
Really, it doesn’t matter what sizes of fish are taken home because it is all about how many fish are in the cookie jar. If a larger fish is taken home, that frees up food for a smaller fish to quickly grow and replace the bigger one. Someone in this thread mentioned genetics and that taking the bigger fish removes the best genetics from the fishery. This, though, is totally false for a couple reasons: 1) those fish have already probably passed on their genetics in previous spawns 2) fish size among a species within a fishery is normally a product of environment rather than genetics 3) females and males carry genetics…harvesting one or the other would still mean that either the female or male is still able to pass those genes on.
To keep bass under 12" is good for the lakes … No keeping bass over 12" on the lakes will only hurt the bass not help…
Dude, you are one confusing person. I read, re-read, and then re-read again, and I still can’t figure out what the hell you’re trying to say. Slow down, and think about what you are typing. Maybe think about creating a rough draft, have it reviewed, and then type it up again. Then review it again, and then make a final draft that makes some sense. My super-secret Mojo decoder ring can’t decipher your messages lately…
As for cutthroat at the berry – those cutts are managed to keep chub numbers in check. If they are harvested under that slot, then they aren’t big enough to prey on chubs. Sounds like a completely different scenario than Jordanelle and the smallies. Same thing with Fishlake and the spearfishermen. Spearfishermen can still spear lake trout – just not during the spawn when those fish are extremely vulnerable.
When fish are in their maximum growth curves, they grow very fast. How do you get them into their maximum growth curve? You create available space for them to grow. You can’t do that when the lake is at carrying capacity. So, how do you reduce capacity? You allow for harvest. If you happen to eliminate a “big” fish, that fish is quickly replaced by another fish, which then has the opportunity to grow quickly and fill the shoes of the lost “big” fish.
If Mojo-man would ever take the time to try to learn, and quit being so stubborn, he’d understand some of this. Oh well. Back to the mojo-decoding.
If anyone really wants to learn something new, try reading this article:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/…bbon/4-step_plan.pdf
if you only want to learn a tid-bit, check out page 8 (fact or myth?).
Wow 14lb that beats any I have caught…
I have bass fished for over 30+ years in Utah and seen it real bad and good, the best bass fishing has been in just the last few years cause of the regs on the lakes we do…
In the past they had 6 bass limits on all bass lakes in Utah and the fishing was real poor at best, just no bass in the lakes or just small ones at best…
Some say that bass will stunt if not harvested from some lakes but this is not true, no lake can stunt on bass even if no one ever fished it on waters the size of ( East canyon, Jordanelle, Deer Creek) or lakes of this size or bigger…
But they can and have been fish down till about all you get is small small mouth bass NOT stunted bass…Bass grow slow in our waters a 20" bass may be 8 to 12 years old and a lake like Jordanelle may only have 200 to 400 at best 20" or bigger in it, and with as many fisherman that fish it on the average year about 100 20" bass is caught at that rate it would not take long till they will be gone or in such low numbers none will be caught..
If you have a trophy lake like Jordanelle then make it so and if they make it so one bass can be kept then make it 20" or 22" not 12" or 15" …
I like to fish for big fish or at least have a good chance of catching one or more…East canyon at one time had lots of big bass in it, now you may get some at 14 to 16" but not many… Most of the year all you get is 12" and below…
To me a big bass (small mouth) is 20" or bigger and bass under 14" are small and a 14" small mouth bass on average is 7 years old, a 14" trout may be only 2 to 3 years old so keeping bass can and will on lakes along the Wasatch front just gets too many fisherman to not protect the bigger bass…
When I go to the Gorge or Powell I at times keep some bass and wish I could on other lakes at times but I see how many fisherman that fish them and think of how many bass would be left if we all did keep them…
One post that was made to me said him and his little girl only caught small bass and how great it would be to have his little girl get a 17" bass, but they only fish from shore..
And then said he would like to keep it, all I can say is it takes time for the small ones to grow and if each small bass was kept when hooked we will never have that 17" bass in the lake for his little girl or anyone to catch…
Elk and fishing, apples and oranges…
Elk hunts they only have just a few that can hunt in one area fishing you can have as many as what buys a fishing license can fish the lake and take a limit each day but the elk you only get one per year if lucky…[;)]
I just wanted to say thanks for being willing to post knowing what kind of controversy you would spark. I also really enjoyed your cookie jar analogy, very accurate. fish will grow to the holding capacity of the water they are in based on the resources available. Of course there are other cookies competing, chocolate chip, Oreos, macadamian nut etc. [:p]I think your posting on here so the average person who hasn’t studied freshwater ecology, or fisheries management understands, is a big step in the right direction (there are definitely a few who should take some of those classes before offering their opinions as facts). Educating fishermen on what is and what is not true about fish populations can only have a positive effect on the fisheries here in the state. As for me when I want to eat fish I take some home, when I don’t want to eat them I don’t and I teach my boys to do the same. I also wanted to say I really appreciate all you guys do. you have some very passionate people to please and I know you work hard to keep the anglers happy as well as trying to help maintain the delicate ecological balance of the different lakes here in the state, Thanks from a fellow lover of biology as well as a fisherman,
Jed Burton
As one of those crazed bass fisherman that Drew talks about, and been doing it longer than most here, I have to weigh in on this. Drew’s position is correct. Things today are totally different that they were 30 years ago. Back then, there was little if any managment of warmwater species in the state. Everything was focused on the put and take trout fisheries. Lake Powell, Flaming Gorge, Deer Creek, Utah Lake and a few other waters were all we had. Today, we have myriad fisheries that are chock full of bass, walleye, and other warm water species, along with trout. This is due to the efforts of sportsman and the DWR both. Let’s look at an example of DWR’s management, Lake Powell. Once the powers that were began to listen to Wayne and let him manage the water as needed, it has turned into a world class fishery for all species. As sportsman, we need to listen to the professionals like Drew and his crew, give them the input they need, then let them do their job. Personally, I have been keeping small bass, under 12 inches, for years now. Keeping 6 10-12 inch fish at Deer Creek or Jordanelle will not adversly affect the fishery. Any system has what is called carrying capacity. That can exist as 100 10oz fish, 50 20oz fish or 10 100oz fish. That is why they are removing carp at Utah lake, to remove the most unutilized biomass so that useful species can fill in the nich. Balance my friends, Balance !!! Keep up the good work Drew !!!
I personally hates seeing big bass being harvested. I do agree that some bass do need to be harvested from some of our lakes. I would like to see the limit of smallmouth bass bumped to 10 fish, but closed to the possesion of fish between 12-20 inches. Maybe 14-18 inches. Thin out the population, and leave spawners to keep the population healthy.
I would also like to see Utah Lake closed to the possesion of Largies. These fish are one of the only species that can keep carp in check. Carp minnows grow so fast, That most fish can’t eat them, but the largies largemouth allows them to keep eating carp.
Cookie jar???
sorry my boat does not fit in a cookie jar, my gold fish mite if that jar is big enough…
Have you been drinking out of that bucket or cookie jar???
How can you compare bass to trout???
Each grow at different speeds and each eat different food at different times of life…And there is a BIG differences in lakes from rivers or creeks…
If you want to talk trout then lets talk..But sense we are talking bass lets keep it on track…
Just my observation : I lived and worked in northern cal for a few years. There were several great bass fishing waters with the most famous being clear lake . At clear lake limits of 3-5lb bass are common. I don’t pretend to know anything about bass growth rates ect… Only that similar type waters there all have a 5 bass limit with none under 12" allowed. And they seem to be much better than the lakes here. I believe when bass are introduce to a new water , they need the over 12" release to allow for a larger class to get established. Then regs modified to create a balance. (maybe 5 under 14" and 1 over or similar) I believe in some smaller lakes or lakes with limited suitable habitat over population can be harmful. And year by year waters need adjustments depending on drought cycles and effect on habitat. For example. Lake powell in the 70’s (before stripers, and smallies) as the lake rose and flooded new areas , Large mouth fishing was tremendous for size and numbers. But as the lake evolved the dynamics changed, and largemouth were not heard from at L P as much. Then in recent years drought and refill and new habitat, the large mouth are again flourishing. And it’s been more like 5-6 years rather than 20. Bass need changing regs and rules more than other spiecies. So I don’t think you can create a statewide blanket regulation. But rather adjust each water as needed. And I do love the taste of bass! And I am happy to see the improvement over the past 30 years.Just my 2 cents worth.
In this case size dose mater, the bigger the lake the more open the limits can be…And the different kinds and numbers of food minnows has a lot to do as well…Powell has the two kinds of shad now…