One more question. It kept mentioning “state waters”. Are all streams considered state waters? At the headwaters of the particular river I am thinking of the stream gets quite small. Give me some examples of non-state waters, besides the obvious irrigation canals? I am stoked about this. I just want to know enough about it to keep myself out of trouble.
RE: “Does this really mean you can go on any stream in UT as long as you don’t go above the high water mark?”
One thing to remember about this ruling is that it does require that there be a public access point to get on the river without trespassing. Because of this, there will still be a lot of streams that will be hard to legally access. But once legally in, you are OK, as long as you stay in the water.
From what I currently understand , this ruling did not define “the high water mark” as the boundary. (Montana does) and another court ruling or challenge may next be needed to provide that definition. For now, it appears that you must stay IN the water.
first let me say this i do not actually believe that the majority of the people here at BFT are THE ONES. I actually think this is the best face for the fishing world one could want. but, you do not believe that land owners have progressively got more strict (lets say over the last 30 years) about who is accessing their properties unfounded do you? if you think those things are not what happens you need to open your eyes, whats the difference between trashing my land and the local reservoir, that always seems to be a hot subject here, and if it were your property you would feel the same i have absolutely no problem with people fishing through our property nor did i say they can’t take their fair share of fish i said every fish they catch, and i never have, but for every how many come through a certain amount do not keep their hands off and they do exactly the same things i mentioned, think it through, i have done just that every time i pick up after some person who does not respect what i work very hard on or for, or reattach a door that some body ripped off of my kids tree house and replace their lantern because somebody needed it more than us, it has absolutely nothing to do with the water related recreation here it has everything to do with what comes along with it and it does come as hard as some of you try be the better person some just can’t be, it has always happened and we just got used to it and dealt with it now many people will read the first two lines or hear something from a friend and assume they own everything so now rather than a few risking it there will be many more, we can’t be there 24-7 to watch everyhthing so theres how it goes and mr bolton thinks that i have not thought it through
Now if only Wyoming would follow i could die a happy man!!! [;)][fishin]
I have a public street in my front yard and a person used this public street to access my property to steal something and another to vandalize something. Should they close this public road bordering my property because there is potential for someone to break the law? I do not think so and neither should you. They are not talking about a pond you dug which would be personal property but ****public property which everyone has a right to use (not abuse, that is still illegal public or private).
Like Bass said, we have all been stolen from and vandalized. There is no escaping “those people”. I feel for you as I do the guy on here who had his boat trailer and motor stolen right out of his driveway.
What we need is to break down the barriers with affected land owners and really work to turn in all the scumbags on privite and public land all the time.
As ar as I understand it, what this ruling does is to allow a person to enter the river at a public access point, they may float, fish, hunt, wade or swim in order to use a public waterway for recreation. The act of touching the bottom of the waterway with a vessel, paddle or person is incidental to the recreational use and is there also allowed.If they encounter an obstruction, they may enter the land to go around the obstruction in a manner that has the least impact on the owners use.
This most likely will not effect headwaters on private land any farther upstream than could be walked from the Public access point closest to the property.
This is great news! As to the concerns expressed by landowners, we sportsmen have a new recreation opportunity and responsibility. If any of us sees one of those scumbag types that give us all a bad name, we gotta report them ASAP. If we will all do our part this can work out to everyones benefit. Time was I would personally straighten out those scumbags thinking but now that I’m 68 that action doesn’t have the best outcome for me.
I understand your concerns 100%. I am here to tell you that i for one hate the ignorant bastards that feel they have to cut fences, shoot cattle, leave garbage everywhere and destroy property and landowner relations.
For what it’s worth, i have all law enforcement agencies phone #'s in my cell phone and i will call them on the first sign of crap like that. I hunted ducks on a stretch of the weber that was private for many years. It was the best mallard shooting i ever had until some idiots did the very things i mentioned above. Now NOBODY can get on the property. I always walked out of there with garbage, empty shells including my own and everyone elses that couldn’t pick them up. I fixed fences on said property to prevent cattle from getting out on 3 occasions. I called the sheriff numerous times on tresspassers, litterers, vandals, and the like. Like i said, i don’t hesitate. Rest assured that if i am ever on your property or anyone elses for that matter, i will always leave with more than i walked in with(trash etc.) and i will always protect the resource and property the best i can. There are others like me around, but there are also some real pieces of work. If enough people were like me and stood up for these kinds of things, it would be a different game altogether. I don’t keep trout very often, and have caught my big fish for mounting so i have no need to keep any more.
So, my advice to you would be to put up a sign listing the pertinent law enforcement phone #'s, ask people to pick up trash and junk, and watch out for illegal activity. You might also do something like they do on the public access waters in wanship and have a sign in box for people who access your property. If you want to do something like this shoot me a pm and i will front the money for the wood and equipment needed to do it. I am sure there are others on here that would volunteer time and money to help out. Let me know.
That’s interesting. I too hunt the Weber for duckies and it’s my favorite duck hunt. [;)] The Sparkinator and I just love to spy, pull a sneak and jump shoot. Allmost as good as pheasants. I’ve even got some geese there. I figure I’m real lucky to belong to a small club that owns the property but it costs me a few nickels. Still reasonable to be able to fish and hunt there.
For me, that brings up a few questions - 1) What is the “bed” i.e. high water mark? 2) Are you allowed to retrieve a duckie shot on the river if it goes on the bank? Probably not, right? So it’s still is kind of dicey.[unimpressed] Best not to do it at all. [frown]
P.S. If this has been addressed already in the post I apologize.
Leaky and the Sparkinator
This ruling does not in any way allow you to trespass accross someone’s property to access anything the way I see it. This will allow anyone to float or walk a river from a public access point, and move on to private land to move around an obstruction but that is all. I don’t own any private land but respect those who do. Trespassing is trespassing still the way I read this. Why would you ever own land if you couldn’t have it for yourself?
your interpertation is pretty likely.
Example:
You will be able to start at the road where Thousand Acres Ranch and Smith-Morehouse road split and be able to walk upstream to fish. You may not drive up the road, get out and TRESSPASS to get to the river, then fish.
You must walk up the river from the public access and you must return down the river to public land to get out.
The only private property that may be touched is the streambed. You may leave the streambed only to get around obstructions and then only in the least impacting way to the land owner.
Seems like all fisherman owe the Conasters a big thanks for carrying this to the Supreme Court for a decision.
Kevin’s been a friend of mine since grade school. He left a rather enthusiastic message on my home voicemail the day his lawyer called him and told him the news. He doesn’t use computers so it would do me no good to point him to this thread. However, I will let him know that the vast majority of the Utah BFT community would like to thank him.
Since you don’t want to reply or have not had a chance, here is an update on the ideas i told you i would be willing to help out with.
I spoke with the sergent of the Ogden/Northern region office about and his reply was this:
“If a landowner is interested in doing a landowner/public access program tell them to contact our office and state their intent, areas of interest, and their landowner information(location, amount of land, intent and purpose of the land and so forth) and we will be happy to provide all the materials and paper work to do so.” They will offer the projects to the Dedicated hunter program and county community services. Let the people who might have done you wrong fix the place up a little and get it all done for free. Just a thought.[;)]