Spring Bass'en at Powell

:sunglasses:When was the last time YOU fished the Lake. I didn’t think so.


Theories might work great on paper. The reality is that the lake has seen a tremendous surge in both numbers and size of fish since the “accidental” introduction of gizzard shad. They provide a vast new feeding resource…especially for the stripers as they grow larger and need larger food items. That takes some of the pressure off the threadfins and leave more of them for other species.


No doubt higher water levels and more nutrients also contribute to improved fishing.


But don’t be slammin’ Cliff for his comments. They are a lot more on track than your pseudo scientific esplanations.

amen,

all being said,nice pics, nice fish.

So what you are saying is that the fish pass up on the Threadfin for a Gizzard? I dont think fish are “that” picky!
TS

bassrods,
Awesome pics man! I’d love to get down there! Looks like you had a great trip.

We’ll try to ignore the low-lifes’ comments that always make the Utah board such a pleasure to visit. Thanks again for the great report.

Worm-e
You don’t see the trees for the forest…
First off when the DWR first found the G shad in Powell it was doom and gloom for Powell…Well up until then it had been, WHY NO FOOD… The lake has had cover in it for over ten years but until the G-shad got in the lake the stripers was eating all the food fish up and ALL the fish was starving to a point…

Ups and downs not in your life, just down, like some of our other lakes… Yes others like Yuba and before the perch got in Starvation, but Powell has two kinds of shad for sure and I think they found one or two other kinds when they found the G- shad…

You and your brother talk and think alike and a bucket is a bucket and a lake is a lake, and take away the food from anything and it will starve, fish Deer cows you name it…

The bottom line is feed the fish with the right minnows and they will grow (even in a bucket) and even trout will grow…

Some of us has said this same thing for years…But the DWR Removed would kill off every thing but trout…Now who is DUMB…

What would happen to Yuba with shad in the lake???
Removed Me for wanting better and bigger fishing for all ???
Removed

So what you are saying is that the fish pass up on the Threadfin for a Gizzard? I dont think fish are “that” picky!
TS

:sunglasses:That’s why you’re not paid to think.


It’s not a matter of passing up the threadfins. It is simply that there is NOW a lot more food in the food chain. Plus, the gizzard shad get much bigger so the bigger stripers key in on them instead of the smaller threadfin.


**Those who know the lake (biologists) and anglers who fish it a lot claim that the habits of the stripers has changed a lot in the last couple of years…since the gizzard shad have exploded in the lake. With so much available food in the lake, at various levels, the stripers are not massing up to mop up remaining schools of threadfins in the big boils like they used to. The stripers can get easy meals of bigger food fish almost anywhere. **


With more stripers feeding on gizzard shad it takes a lot of pressure off the threadfin population. They are getting off bigger spawns and their population is much greater…which benefits all of the other predator species in the lake. Stripers of all sizes still eat threadfins, but once they get larger they are able to eat the bigger gizzard shad and prefer them because they are a bigger meal.


What do you think of that?

I think you are right on,[crazy] and it was told to me like this…

You may like a hamburger three times a day but after a few days a steak or pork chop is all you want and pass up anything else…That is why one day the fish may want minnows or minnow imitations and other times something else, or one color over the other…

But the bottom line is food then cover on all waters big or small…

[
What do you think of that?

I think some of you guys need to email Wayne and get a third grade lesson in carrying capacity. Sure, the lake has seen a change since the accidental introduction of gizzard shad…but that won’t change the carrying capacity of the reservoir.

And, FWIW, I fish lake powell every year…you have to remember, my father was the one who first introduced stripers to the reservoir.

Cliff, if you don’t think that the rising lake powell has changed from a habitat standpoint the past few years, you need to open your eyes. All that flooded brush has created an excellent nursery for small bass, bluegill, crappie, shad, and even walleye and pike. The same thing is happening at Powell right now that happened in Yuba a couple years ago…it is in a boom cycle right now. But, as it always has, it will soon bust, the stripers will begin starving and get really skinny, and the population will crash.

Evidence to support my claims? How about we use Wayne’s Words: "On January 1, 2002 a new regulation was enacted on Lake Powell that allowed anglers to keep 20 smallmouth bass. The number was not important. It could have been 10 or 30. The philosophical statement was the clincher. I wanted anglers to know that it was okay to keep a bass. Catch and release was not working at Lake Powell. Catch and keep would help improve the fishery. Anglers responded to the new keeper philosophy by doubling the bass harvest. In 2002 and 2003 about 25% of bass caught were kept.
Fast forward to 2004. After only two years of “keeping bass” the fishery has responded in dramatic fashion. Shad forage is more abundant. Smallmouth bass are bigger and fatter. Bass tournaments held in 2002 saw winning average weights of less than 5 pounds for five 12-inch smallmouth bass. The first two tournaments held in 2004 had winning weights of over 9 pounds for five fish with a “big fish” over 3 pounds. The ratio of bass over 13 inches in the population (RSD) has improved from zero in 2000 to 20% in 2003. The outlook for 2004 is for continued bass growth and better quality fishing.

How does this work? Smallmouth targeted by our catch and keep program, those 9-11 inch bass, are the most aggressive predators. Young bass are naïve, fearless and always hungry. By keeping the smaller, most aggressive bass, more food was made available for the older, wiser fish that were more selective in feeding habits. Keeping the larger bass would have had the opposite effect of leaving the most efficient predators and not freeing up enough additional forage. Anglers were given information about the goal of the bass harvest program and the target size fish to harvest. They responded with enthusiasm. This was a victory for angler education in action." So, to increase the size of bass, more bass had to be kept. Why? To free up biomass…instead of the biomass being comprised of small fish, more room in the bucket was made for bigger fish.

This is just in response to smallmouth bass…what about stripers? Again, Wayne’s Words: "In 2007, we find gizzard shad have occupied all of Lake Powell. It really only took 3 years for the migration of shad to reach from the upper San Juan to the dam all the way to the headwaters of the Colorado River. In netting samples during November 2006, gizzard shad accounted for almost as much fish flesh as striped bass. The largest shad caught to date came from Wahweap bay. The huge shad was 19.25 inches long and weighed 2.8 pounds. Gizzard shad grew to larger size than normal in the fertile waters found during 20003-2006.
While threadfin numbers crashed in 2006 in response to heavy predation from massive numbers of adult game fish, gizzard shad adults continued to become more numerous. There are no natural predators for big gizzard shad. They just get big and eat algae and detritus off the bottom. Large numbers of adults are needed to provide the new crop of shad each spring that all game fish depend on for growth and survival. With threadfin presently low in numbers, the progeny of gizzard shad will provide needed food fish during the critical spring months. There may not be enough shad to go around in 2007 but the presence of gizzard shad will provide at least some food to keep the fisheries on track for the near term. "

Interestingly, the last striper crash–2006–corresponded with the last crash of threadfin shad…now as shad numbers–both threadfin and gizzard shad–increase, the health of predators (bass, walleye, pike, and stripers) has also increased. In other words, once the striper population crashed, the bucket was left with a void that the shad were able to occupy. Wow, what a concept! The old carrying capacity/bucket analogy lesson in perfect action! Of course, though, we shouldn’t believe any of that…Cliff knows better!

I dont think anything of it. I could care less if the stripers ate beer cans. As far as Cliffs statement, I tell you what, if there is food, I will eat it, whatever is easier for the fish to catch I think is what it is going to eat, not because of species though.
TS

What do you think of that?

http://www.lakepowell.org/page_two/information/articles/New_Fish_Species/new_fish_species.html

A few cherry-picked statements from the above article:

“The rapid growth means that largemouth and smallmouth bass are able to eat shad for only a short time each spring. Then shad and young bass may actually compete for the same limited planktonic food.”

“Lake Powell is forage limited with striped bass reproducing without limit and smallmouth being perfectly matched with the rocky habitat. Predators outnumber prey. Striped bass have suffered periods of malnutrition when threadfin have been eliminated from the open water by predation. Smallmouth growth has slowed when shad are not available to supplement their crayfish diet. Gizzard shad have the potential to fit well with the existing threadfin population.”

“There is an overlap between young threadfin, gizzards and young bass for the same plankton in the same shallow water in spring and summer. Once that hurdle is cleared surviving sport fish should grow much better with an additional forage fish that is larger and contains more food value.”

"After years of telling Utah biologists to forget about stocking gizzard shad in Lake Powell because of concern for sensitive species, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service accidentally did just that. “We considered it years ago and Fish and Wildlife said absolutely not,” said southern region biologist Dale Hepworth. “Now they did it by mistake. That’s kind of comical.”

“But gizzards are a much larger, more robust and faster breeding variety that love muddy water. Threadfins take two years to reach 3-4 inches in length. Gizzards grow that large in two months, Gustaveson said. Powell’s once-famous “striper” fishery collapsed in the mid-'80s when striped bass wiped out the threadfin shad planted there as forage.”

“Periodically, the threadfins bounce back, but it is a short-lived boom. Don’t count your trophy stripers before they hatch, says Gordon Mueller, an ecologist with U.S. Geological Survey. He will be surprised if stripers can wrap their lips around dinner-plate shaped adult shad.”

“The greedy gizzards will gobble up plankton, a food source for all young fish. “There’s another chair at the table,” Mueller said. And unlike the threadfin that is always small enough for predators to eat, the gizzard gets up to 18 inches. Too much of Powell’s productivity is already tied up in large carp, Mueller says, and gizzards may just be another big fish that predators can’t eat. “It’s very unfortunate that they’re there,” Mueller said”

:sunglasses:I’m done.


Nobody ever wins in a Cliff bashing party.


No matter what experienced anglers observe while fishing the lake throughout the year…it is WRONG. Anything presented to support Cliff’s statements is beaten down with a combination of outdated rhetoric and outright personal bias.


Contrary to the opinions of some on this site, biologists are not always right…and their statements are not always timely. They are notorious for being behind on the current conditions for any given water.


**Wayne is an exception. But much of the information I have gleaned during the past two years has come from his recent comments…not some he made in 2002. That was ancient history in terms of the current lake level and fish population numbers. **


I hereby get off my soapbox and leave the field to those who enjoy pointless bickering more than I do.

:sunglasses:I’m done.


Nobody ever wins in a Cliff bashing party.


[
**Wayne is an exception. But much of the information I have gleaned during the past two years has come from his recent comments…not some he made in 2002. That was ancient history in terms of the current lake level and fish population numbers. **


I hereby get off my soapbox and leave the field to those who enjoy pointless bickering more than I do.

Oh please…1) Cliff started this argument. He made a snide remark directed towards things said to him in the past. Don’t let him off as a poor victim.

2)First of all, those comments from 2002 and from 2006 were put up there to show that the lake goes through cycles. And, that carrying capacity is key to fish health. Many of the above comments were directed towards Cliff’s snide remark about our bucket analogy. In fact, what Wayne’s earlier comments clearly show is that if too many fish are in the bucket, fish health declines–like with the smallmouth bass. And, when prey species decline and predators increase, fish health declines. This all goes back to the bucket analogy and shows clear “bust” portions of the lake powell cycle.

Do you want comments made from 2010 from Wayne that say the same things? Ok…http://blogs.sltrib.com/fishing/index.php?p=11873&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

some excerpts: “The effect of brush along the normally barren rocky shoreline created much more living space and shelter for all fish. It has been a long road back but the journey has really been worth it”

“The drought silver lining had some positive effects. The lake was low enough that waves stirred the old bottom sediment releasing long buried nutrients. Added nutrition created a bumper crop of forage fish which in turn enhanced the populations of hungry sportfish.”

http://www.gjsentinel.com/outdoors/articles/biologist_fish_are_grinning_at

Excerpts:
“The effect of having all that drowned brush along the normally barren and rocky shoreline creates more living space and shelter for all fish, he said.“It has been a long road back but the journey has really been worth it,” Gustaveson said. Secondly, there are plenty of forage fish, including both threadfin shad and gizzard shad, to provide sustenance for countless predators, he said.”

http://www.lakepowellchronicle.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&story_id=2094&page=81

Excerpts:
“If current weather conditions continue, expect largemouth bass spawning to begin sometime near the second week of April, followed by crappie and smallmouth during the third week. Striped bass and walleye fishing will steadily improve through the month and peak during May. This is exciting news but the size and quality of all fish at the lake this year makes it so much better. Fishing success this year will be **at a high point **”

"Sorry to those waiting for stripers to come to the main channel, where they are so easily caught on bait. That is not likely to happen this year. Forage conditions are strong with both gizzard and threadfin shad living near the terminal end of each canyon. Stripers are not prone to leave their food source. To find them, go to the back of the canyon. "

Lake Powell is the boom portion of a cycle…a cycle that will likely repeat itself once the predators become too prolific and outnumber prey. You need to wake up if you don’t believe it!

What would happen to Yuba with shad in the lake???

What would happen? Well, the water users would still drain the lake, the habitat would be high-and-dry, and the lake would still have a boom\bust cycle fishery. Nothing would be accomplished.

The great thing about Lake Powell right now is that there is lots, and lots, and lots of NEW flooded vegetation thanks to a number of years of extremely low water levels. This will result in good fishing for a number of years. What will happen in the future? We can’t tell for sure. But, if water levels stay high all that new flooded vegetation will disappear really quickly.

The theory holds true, whether people’s ignorance believe it or not is another story. Once the bucket is full, you can’t add more to it. Plain and simple.

It is so nice to read what you two know it all’s have to say…

But like was posted by the DWR and you Lake Powell is in bad shape cause of all the gizzard shad has eating all the plankton and all the bass are long and skinny…

How many times do we have to read lies..I remember some one who said he didn’t in-hell so the pot he used didn’t count…If you want to post your hair brain ideas make your own post…

It’s kind of odd you say that about all the "long/skinny LMB there “I know it…NOT”!!! Have you ever read wayneswords? If so, you obviously need to RE-READ and look at the pictures. Especially when he says it wouldnt surprise him to see the state record this year. It’s people and posts like you that make me throw all the LMB I catch on the bank!!!
TS

:sunglasses:Why do you have to keep embarassing yourself?


Cliff was making fun of the other reports of skinny fish. In his report and in his pictures the fish are clearly healthy. And that is what all of the KNOWLEDGEABLE ANGLERS are saying right now. Lake Powell is healthy and so are the fish.


Give it up and go fishing so you can contribute something on the board besides arguments.

Well it is pretty hard to embarass me, so I am not concerned at all. Also, it is so darn hard to understand anything he says anyway, so if I took what he said wrong then lets blame him for only making it understandable for a 3 year old learning how to spell/write!!!

I thought you said you were out of this post anyway? Reminds me of another person on here that said he was done posting completly on BFT, but he seems to throw some nonsense in when he can.
TS

I am not a easy guy to piss off but the more you post the worse it gets for me. You attack these guys that have been fishing for more years than you are alive and I dont believe half the crap you say… You are lucky the words you print all the time cannot / but probably should get you fined for saying all the time about how you throw LMB up on the bank… I thought you were a pretty cool guy for starting that donation that many of us contributed stuff that went to your brother and soldiers in Iraq. By the way I never did find out if that heavy box I gave you ever made it to Iraq, it had several hundreds of dollars worth of items for fishermen… I never seen one pic or one word of it ever getting there. I hope you sent it, they way you are acting out against these guys makes me wonder if it ever got there. I am hoping to fish with your brother this summer but seing the way you are here I would not invite you in my boat ever. Don’t post if you dont like what you read no matter who it comes from… my two cents on this matter… bye…

it made it to the 18th Airborne guys, we took pics and every thing and posted them here of the Marines raiding it!

I am glad to hear that, I think your brother did a great thing back then but his popularity sure is going down hill now… thanks for chiming in… when we going fishing???