One big difference, you build the ultimate light “float Tube” NFO builds the ultimate light “PONTOON” Both look similar, but…
Oooooo wow that’s nice I like how they made the bags 2 tone instead of the plain black.
Do you think its light enough to pack up in the Uintah’s on foot ?
But a Super Fat Cat weighs the same and packs smaller. The ODC420 UL is even lighter and packs smaller. Of course my tube weighs what that tu-tone gear bag does! LOL…
Of course the NFO can take an RPG round so there’s that…
_SHig
Awe, but this is almost twice the size of either (and as you said, weighs the same or a little more).
They are not bladderless, have skid plates, handles, Foot bar mount, Oar holders, and capable of taking Class 3 white water.
All this adds to size, not weight. I can get it to about 22" x 24" x 5".
Oh and I can add a motor (including small Gas) battery and my dog)
Absolutely. Every craft has its niche. My point was that you wouldn’t hike into the Uintas with a motor, and battery, etc. looking for Class 3 whitewater unless your dog looked more like a mule! 
I do admit that I have oar-envy sometimes when I plop my Fish Cat into drive-up lakes…
_SHig
SHig:
What is the maximum weight of motor/battery assembly that would allow someone to hike into the Uintas on foot, if volume could be made very small?
Pon
SHig:
What is the maximum weight of motor/battery assembly that would allow someone to hike into the Uintas on foot, if volume could be made very small?
Pon
Well, it would depend on if one was doing an extended trip. Just the basics for camping at its absolute lightest for a tarp, bag, pad, food, fuel, and stove for three or four days would probably be 20 pounds? That’s pretty bare bones non freezing summer season I’d guess. If the Uintas are anything like the Sierra, I’d hate to really attack any big passes with more than 40 lbs on my back, so boat and fishing gear would make up 20 lbs.
So with Joni’s 12 pound boat, add 2 pounds for rod and reel and gear, you’re left with 6 lbs for motor, motor mount, gas or battery, fins (if you chose to take any), waders, oars (unless that’s in the 12 lb weight). You get the idea.
Now if it’s a day trip, it’s a bit different. However the point I was trying to make was that high backcountry stillwater fishing really doesn’t call for this sort of craft. The relative low weight, speed, range, and flexibility make it nicer to haul down the embankment from the parking lot to the lake, but I wouldn’t say it’s a “backpacking” boat.
To contrast, my tube will be around 27 ounces and rolls up barely larger than a 32 oz Nalgene, fins 9, waders 10, booties 8. Total “boat kit” weight = 54 ounces or just under 3-1/2 pounds. Hell, a pair of Force fins probably weighs more than that! Adding that to the 20 lb pack will allow one to enjoy the hike and arrive at the lake much happier if you ask me.
Of course to each his own and if someone were to insist on showing up to a 5 acre lake at 10,000’ with a Predator more power to 'em!
_SHig
And Uinta’s has all that. There are thousands of lakes up there.
Look at this map
All of the bigger lakes are within walking distance. Get on Washington and kick (or row) all the way across the lake and Tail lake then hike a mile or so up hill to Shadow. Great day of fishing at just under 10,000. If I plan this trip, I don’t take a motor obviously.
But, I could take food, tent, and sleeping bag and camp up there
Lightening storms move in almost daily and fast, having OARS on any one of these lakes makes an exit a breeze.
Oh and Mirror lake up the road:
10 X that 5 Acres and over that 10,000. No motor isn’t needed but makes it much nicer and able to get out in the middle easier. Add a sonar and now I can tell you, there are areas of these lakes that are over 50’ deep.
As you can see from the maps, your choices are endless and again, all within walking distance, however, many make these trips of several days using horses or goats.
AND that is just one slope of the Uintas.[:)] There are many.
I recently did a blurb for Backpacker Magazine on great overnight hikes and came up with this list of lakes all within 5 miles (as the crow flies) of Crystal Lake Trailhead in the Uintas. A fly fishing paradise indeed.
-
Washington -
Azure -
Bench -
Beth -
Blue -
Booker -
Buckeye -
Clegg -
Clegg -
Cliff -
Cuberant 1 -
Cuberant 2 -
Cuberant 3 -
Cuberant 4 -
Cutthroat -
Divide 1 -
Divide 2 -
Divide 3 -
Duck -
Fire -
Hayden -
Haystack -
Hope -
Ibantik -
Island -
James -
Kamas -
Lillian -
Lilly -
Little Hidden -
Lofty -
Long -
Lovinia -
Lower Twin -
Marjorie -
Meadow -
Notch -
Petit -
Picturesque -
Pot -
Ramona -
Reids -
Rock -
Ruth -
Shadow -
Star -
Tail -
Three Divide -
Trident -
Upper Twin -
Wall
Looks like a great area to explore!
With so many bigger lakes that close to a road I can see why a day trip with an all-singing all-dancing boat would be attractive. I assumed it was more like Sequoia Nat’l Park where the big goldens lurk in lakes 2 days’ hike in over 12k’ mountain passes.
_SHig
It can be. As I said, this is one portion of the Uintas. There is the Boulders as well.
All I am saying is we do not “have” to trek miles to get to a remote lake, but you certainly can if you want to.
I consider myself in great shape for my age and I am very athletic, just not into packing several days worth into the hills and camping out on the ground. Been there, done that. But, funny thing, I may have given up the ruffin’ it, but the beauty is still there.
I am assuming you have built you mega light tube and fins to hike 100’s of miles to eat package meals and sleep in the light one man tent for multi days. Looks like you are off and running, enjoy.
To paraphrase what’s been said, “different boats for different floats”. 
I would love a super light tube for those hiking lakes that I still occasionally get to, but I also love my 5 other rides.
I have a 7lb Caddis Nav II tube for those short hike places and to pack really small for quick trips. I keep it and a pair of packing fins together in a small fabric suitcase. It is quick and small to throw in the car.
Then I have my Fish Cat 4 for small reservoirs and occasionally some larger. I have an electric motor that I can put on it too. I use it mostly when I want the motor option or don’t have packing room for my next larger float.
Next I have a NFO Renegade. It is great. I love having the option of oars or motor, yet it is light enough that I can just kick it as I would any other float tube. I would take it more often if it was easier to fold and packed up smaller. When I leave for extended trips it is hard to sacrifice that much room for it. So I mostly use it on the larger reservoirs and rivers on day trips.
I also still have a Sportsman’s Warehouse/Outcast pontoon boat, but I don’t use it unless we have a number of guests with us.
Last we have a 12’ boat with gas motor. We usually take it on the larger local reservoirs, or if we have grandkids or guests with us.
I am blessed to have so many options. I really am not inclined to get rid of any of them as they each fill their niche.
I see what you are saying[:)]
I am assuming you have built you mega light tube and fins to hike 100’s of miles to eat package meals and sleep in the light one man tent for multi days. Looks like you are off and running, enjoy.
That’s the idea, though an office job and chemo may prevent me from doing the above, I can still dream… Have some shorter day trips and overnighters in the works though.
OTOH, if I can give someone else the tools to do the PCT with a float tube, I can live vicariously through them.
Basically, my tube is aimed at those who previously would hike deep into the wilds with a flyrod and a backpack and would never have consider taking any sort of boat. But if the weight and bulk penalty for being able to cast at the rising fish in the middle of a high glacial tarn was as low as a quart Nalgene full of water, it just might be worth it. 
Small niche, true, but such lunatics exist…
_SHig
It is tempting though to look at the new lightweight boats that NFO is coming up with!
I think you are really going to enjoy your new ride. Keep us posted on your trips with it.
And that is a righteous quest for sure. Mine is not so noble.
I am sharing the idea of a full sized PONTOON, bags seat and oars to the people that may already have a pontoon, but take a tube due to the pontoon being a pain and too heavy.
I think we are after two different demographics here and that is why I kept emphasizing that this is a “PONTOON” with the weight of a tube.
See, I am getting older, have broke my back three times, just had treatment for two ruptured discs, but I like to take my dog and occasionally a battery (which I have down sized as well) and a motor, so I have a quest as well. Just not the same direction as you.
I will let you know how I do when the Uinta’s open up.
Just read the history of your UL float tube. Awesome stuff! I try to take a week backpacking trip every summer – Sawtooths, White Clouds, Wind Rivers, Sierras, and the Uintas this July (come out and join us if you like).
So many high-mountain lakes that I would love to fish with your tube. I think your niche market may be be larger than you think.
I’m sure you thought of this but didn’t see it mentioned, but could you somehow incorporate a sleeping pad like the NeoAire into the float tube to further lower the overall weight?
Just read the history of your UL float tube. Awesome stuff! I try to take a week backpacking trip every summer – Sawtooths, White Clouds, Wind Rivers, Sierras, and the Uintas this July (come out and join us if you like).
So many high-mountain lakes that I would love to fish with your tube. I think your niche market may be be larger than you think.
I’m sure you thought of this but didn’t see it mentioned, but could you somehow incorporate a sleeping pad like the NeoAire into the float tube to further lower the overall weight?
Thanks!
I have actually considered double duty parts. For example instead of the inflatable seat just put a sling in and save maybe 5 ounces, but then stack a folded Neo Air (actually the exact pad I had in mind) in there as the seat.
Few issues:
- If you go on a day trip, you save 5 ounces but add a pound since you’re taking the sleeping pad that you otherwise wouldn’t have. Maybe not a huge issue as you pack lighter for day trips anyway.
- The folded and stacked pad isn’t nearly as rigid as the one piece, thicker designed seat so you may sag quite a bit more and the ride may be “squishy”.
- Any full length pad would have to be folded twice (three layers thick) to fit right, but that would make it 8 inches thick, and you’d be very top-heavy on that perch. It may be possible to fold once and flip the leftover up as a backrest but then the rigidity is even worse.
- Finally, if a solution were found to actually make it work well, it would really only work the best most likely with a particular pad brand and size and style.
Yup, I’ve thought of it.
That said, I haven’t given up on a camp sit-pad/pillow/backrest option.
Shoot me a message if you might be interested in one. There’s nothing I’d love more than to help people unlock a piece of their backcountry experience that they thought was out of reach to them.
_SHig
SHig:
You have built it and they will come!
The major brands are already starting to go into the lightweight area and will continue as more lightweight strong material becomes available and it gets less costly.
I am a member of the lunatic lightweight niche you refer to, and also think it is a good size market, because of versatility aspect.
The lightweight applications are about more than extended hiking and long pack in/camping trips.For me it is EASY river portage over/around long distance thin water/strong rapids or even between lakes without repeated unloading/breakdown. Sometimes there’s hiking one way to headwaters and riding the current or lake wind back. Shorter trips, to more places, seeing more/ varied beauty with less time spent on endless packing survival details. Water filters, energy bars, hammocks, etc. are lightweight and tolerable for a couple of days.
Minimalism is not for everyone. Americans are large, live/dream large and generally avoid discomforts which means we need the larger boats as well.
Just saying, FWIW…
Pon
Just read the history of your UL float tube. Awesome stuff! I try to take a week backpacking trip every summer – Sawtooths, White Clouds, Wind Rivers, Sierras, and the Uintas this July (come out and join us if you like).
So many high-mountain lakes that I would love to fish with your tube. I think your niche market may be be larger than you think.
I’m sure you thought of this but didn’t see it mentioned, but could you somehow incorporate a sleeping pad like the NeoAire into the float tube to further lower the overall weight?
Thanks!
I have actually considered double duty parts. For example instead of the inflatable seat just put a sling in and save maybe 5 ounces, but then stack a folded Neo Air (actually the exact pad I had in mind) in there as the seat.
Few issues:
- If you go on a day trip, you save 5 ounces but add a pound since you’re taking the sleeping pad that you otherwise wouldn’t have. Maybe not a huge issue as you pack lighter for day trips anyway.
- The folded and stacked pad isn’t nearly as rigid as the one piece, thicker designed seat so you may sag quite a bit more and the ride may be “squishy”.
- Any full length pad would have to be folded twice (three layers thick) to fit right, but that would make it 8 inches thick, and you’d be very top-heavy on that perch. It may be possible to fold once and flip the leftover up as a backrest but then the rigidity is even worse.
- Finally, if a solution were found to actually make it work well, it would really only work the best most likely with a particular pad brand and size and style.
Yup, I’ve thought of it.
That said, I haven’t given up on a camp sit-pad/pillow/backrest option.
Shoot me a message if you might be interested in one. There’s nothing I’d love more than to help people unlock a piece of their backcountry experience that they thought was out of reach to them.
_SHig
SHig:
You have built it and they will come!
The major brands are already starting to go into the lightweight area and will continue as more lightweight strong material becomes available and it gets less costly.
I am a member of the lunatic lightweight niche you refer to, and also think it is a good size market, because of versatility aspect.
**The lightweight applications are about more than extended hiking and long pack in/camping trips.For me it is EASY river portage over/around long distance thin water/strong rapids or even between lakes without repeated unloading/breakdown. Sometimes there’s hiking one way to headwaters and riding the current or lake wind back. Shorter trips, to more places, seeing more/ varied beauty with less time spent on endless packing survival details. Water filters, energy bars, hammocks, etc. are lightweight and tolerable for a couple of days.
Minimalism is not for everyone. Americans are large, live/dream large and generally avoid discomforts which means we need the larger boats as well.**
Just saying, FWIW…
Pon
Exactly. and therefore my review of the lightest pontoon yet.
Light and easy packing has always been Scaddens or NFO’s goal. Even my framed with standing deck X5 at 10’6" long only weighs 65 lbs.
But NFO introducing the FRAMELESS model was directed to those that travel, but don’t have to give up the white water.
The 12’ Challenger weighs 45 lbs.
So, in my opinion, NFO, Dave Scadden is setting the pace. Several company have already chose to copy his designs.
And with all his boats being USA made, he is one of the last pontoon company able to make that claim. As Pontoon said, the comfort and stability.
Add to this his warranty.
SHig, I do look forward to hearing the longevity of your creation. I know Alapacka has been making light weight for years but they are a bit on the fragile side.