I think the proclamation is unecessarily ambiguous in this situation. There were two post with quotes from the proc. that were arguements for both sides. Personally I’ve always been under the impression that as long as there were other species to target you could continue to fish and release any unintended targets (limited out fish) that you happened to catch. Now I see why they could get you on the causey situation because I don’t think there are any non-salmonids to go after once you hit your four fish limit.
The one situation that no one brought up is fishing at rockport and getting a limit of perch and still having room on the ice for trout. The proc. spells out you have to keep all perch caught in the winter.
I would think you were done for the day, due to the good chance of catching more perch that your limit won’t let you keep, but the proc. won’t let you release.
Now what I have said are my ethical opinions, I’ve never talked to a fish cop about this or made any other inquiries. I could be completely wrong and still get a ticket for my actions, but honestly it’s rarely comes up with me because I rarely keep a limit of anything. Personally I only keep enough for one meal and 4 trout or 6 walleye or 50 perch/bluegill is generally more than I need. There are times that the trout are small and I’ll keep a full limit of those, but I generally save my last fish in the limit for the last fish of the day. Good post though; I usually don’t get caught up in the “debate” posts, but this one stayed on point longer than most.
I do think that is the best solution. If you don’t keep them,you don’t have a worry! I always get asked what the limits are at different lakes and I tell people I do not know because I am not keeping them. I can fish as long as I want and catch as many as I want.
Okay, here’s my stupid question. Why would you fish anywhere that the DWR has placed special regulations? You are likely to catch fish that you cannot keep. Which is the same thing as having a limit in possession and continuing to fish. If you are at Minersville, or Kolob, you most likely will catch a fish that is under the 22 inch minimum length requirement. The limit on trout under 22 inches long is zero. If it is injured, you face the same moral, ethical, and legal issue of whether to keep it, and be in violation of the law, or release it to swim off and die.
You might catch a cutthroat at Strawberry that is in the slot. You have fished for, and caught a fish that you cannot keep. The limit on cutthroats 15 to 22 inches long is zero. You’ve caught it, and you can’t keep it. It exceeds the limit. The regulations allow you to release it.
Again, the same holds true for every fish in the state that you may not possess. June Suckers for example. You may not possess them. The limit is zero. But you can fish in the waters that contain them. You are in constructive possession of them the minute you put your hook in the water. But if you catch one, the regs allow you to release it.
The waters that are artificials only, catch and release only have a zero fish limit as well. When you start fishing there, you already have your limit. I guess a smart fisherman would have to call it a day.
And I did mention the possibility of having your limit of perch at Rockport while only having 3 trout in your possession. You can release perch at Rockport during the winter. That regulation only applies at Deer Creek.
There are lots of places where a smart fisherman, as PBH would put it, should not fish. Because the possibility exists that the first fish that you hook will be a violation of the limit.
Sorry guys, I’m sticking to my opinion that the regulations allow you to release fish that do no comply with the size, species, or bag limits on a specific water. It’s still going to be a judgement call as to when you’ve injured a fish, and whether it is best to release it, or to keep it. If it is a violation of the regulations, it is a violation. It doesn’t matter if it is because it is too big, too little, wrong species, or too many of one species. The proclamation says so.
Again Coldfooter, I ask the question. If you catch a Bear Lake Cutthroat at Bear Lake that has all of it’s fins intact, and it’s been injured, do you release it or keep it. I didn’t put words in your mouth. I quoted what you typed on this forum. The law says you must release it. If you keep it, you are in violation of the law. As PBH puts it, a smart fisherman wouldn’t be fishing there, because he might catch a fish that violates the limit.
Fishrmn
“The one situation that no one brought up is fishing at rockport and getting a limit of perch and still having room on the ice for trout. The proc. spells out you have to keep all perch caught in the winter.”
This is true on some waters but not at Rockport. If one chooses to one can catch and release all perch that one catches at Rockport year around.
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I quoted what you typed on this forum. The law says you must release it. If you keep it, you are in violation of the law.
Fishrmn [/reply]
Your full of BS..
Show me where I made any type of statement say its “okay” to release an injuried fish.
What I said was, to abide by the law I’d choose to release the fish. I never said it was “okay” to do so. “okay” was your written word, not mine.. I believe you need to spend more time reading what people actually say and less time typing and trying to put words in other peoples mouths…
Next.. You keep asking about the Bear Lake Cutties. Try an imagine how little I care..
Is there anything else I can do for you??
My bad. Sorry. I figgered if you were going to do it, it was okay. Cause I didn’t figger you’d do it if it wasn’t okay.
Fishrmn
At Minersville if you had in your possession a limit of trout you could no longer fish. If you were fishing Deer Creek and had a limit of trout you could still fish as long as you fished for perch, however if you caught a trout you could be in violation of the limit. This is a sketchy topic and could be looked at different among different CO’s.
From the 2005 Proc:
A person may not fish in waters that have a specific bag or size limit while possessing fish in violation of that limit.
Under the Provisions for Specific Waters we see:
The provisions set forth in this section take precedence over general provisions. Seasons, bag limits and other restrictions stated herein apply only during the times and waters listed.
At Minersville, any fish under 22 inches must be immediately released. As long as you do not have a legal possesion limit already, you are legal to catch, and immediately release, any fish under the possesion limit of 22 inches.
I read the proclamation to say that you must release any fish that is not part of your bag limit, whether or not it is weak or injured. I have heard DWR Officers talk about the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. You must by law follow the letter of the law to keep from being cited for an infraction of the law.
There will be times that anyone that releases a fish will kill the fish. Big deal it’s just a fish and the law dictates what you do with it.
I doubt that the proclamation will ever be made reader friendly. It has to have too many legal phrases in it to make it very easy to read. That is where I will call the DWR and get the answer from them. We can debate all we want but I will never take the word of a BFT poster over a DWR Officer.
At Minersville if you had in your possession a limit of trout you could no longer fish. If you were fishing Deer Creek and had a limit of trout you could still fish as long as you fished for perch, however if you caught a trout you could be in violation of the limit. This is a sketchy topic and could be looked at different among different CO’s
But don’t forget the 6 walleyes and 6 bass that you could also fish for.
I agree. You can’t catch 50 perch at Fish Lake and then go to Deer Creek to fish for trout. You have in your possession, 40 more perch than you’re allowed to have while fishing at Deer Creek. Even if you dropped them off at your house before you went to Deer Creek. But if you had 10 perch from Deer Creek and also 4 trout, you could go to Fish Lake and fish. You could then keep 40 more perch, but you would be required to release ALL of the trout that you might catch.
In both the 2005, and the 2006 procalamations Section IV, part C, paragraph (3) says: Fish not meeting the size, bag, or species provisions on specified waters shall be returned to the water immediately.
If I have 4 trout in my possession, and reel in the 5th one, and it does not meet the bag limit for that specific water the proclamation says it shall be immediately returned to the water. It isn’t in my possession, and I have not possessed a fish that is in violation of the limit. That trout under 22 inches long isn’t in your possession either. So, if it’s legal to do it at Minersville, it’s legal everywhere else.
Fishrmn
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Even if you dropped them off at your house before you went to Deer Creek.
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I agree with most of your statement. However, remember that the possesion limit counts all the fish that you have at home in your freezer. If you already have a possesion of 4 trout in your freezer at home, you may not fish for trout anywhere with a 4 trout limit. This would include places with special regs, like Minersville.
I don’t agree with your last paragraph. I don’t believe that if you catch your 4 fish limit, that you can continue ot fish for trout. This is NOT the same as Minersville and fish under the 22 inch slot. Those fish must be returned. They cannot be counted for your limit. Once you have caught your limit, you CANNOT continue to fish for that species, even it isn’t yet in your possesion.
Thats what one finds when one assumes.. Yawn!
Once you have caught your limit, you CANNOT continue to fish for that species, even it isn’t yet in your possesion.
Okay, show me where it says that in the proclamation! It doesn’t. It does say that fish that do not meet the bag limit at a specific water shall be immediately released. If I have 4 trout, and I’m fishing for any fish, trout or otherwise, and the limit for trout on that specific water is 4, the next trout that I catch must be immediately released, because it does not meet, or comply with the bag limit on that specific water.
And, if you’re right about not being able to fish because you already have your limit in possession, what about the catch and release only regulations? You cannot possess any fish there, so if you don’t have any fish in your possession, you’ve already got your limit. You are taking, pursuing, angling, seining, while in possession of your limit.
However, remember that the possesion limit counts all the fish that you have at home in your freezer. If you already have a possesion of 4 trout in your freezer at home, you may not fish for trout anywhere with a 4 trout limit.
Again, show me that in the proclamation. It does not say that. It is your interpretation of what is written. But it does not say that. It says: Section IV, part C, paragraph (2); A person may not fish in waters that have a specific bag or possession limit while possessing fish in violation of that limit. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT A PERSON CANNOT FISH IN WATERS THAT HAVE A SPECIFIC BAG OR POSSESSION LIMIT WHILE POSSESSING FISH THAT COMPLY WITH THAT LIMIT. If I have one trout in my possession that is not longer than 22 inches, I cannot fish Minersville. That fish is in violation of the size restriction at Minersville. If I have two trout in my possession, I cannot fish at Minersville. That would be a violation of the bag limit at Minersville. But if I have one trout that is longer than 22 inches in my possession, it complies with the regulations at Minersville. Therefore, I am NOT in violation of the bag, species, or size limits at Minersville. Therefore, you cannot use that part of the proclamation to say that I can’t fish there while in possession of trout that meets, or complies with that regulation.
Fishrmn
Read section II-22 Possession Limit. How do you interpret that. I read it to say that if you have 4 trout in your home or camp, you can’t fish for trout of any size anywhere.
It says that if your possession limit is one, that any fish in your possession, at home, camp, or vehicle, or any other place of storage are included in your possession limit. If the limit for trout on the water that you are fishing is 4, and you have 3 at home in the freezer, and they don’t violate any size or species restrictions, you may keep one more trout. It doesn’t say that you cannot continue to fish if you have 4 trout in your possession. Again, having four trout in your possession does not violate your limit, it complies with the limit. If you have those same three trout in your possession, anywhere that is under your juridiction, or control, they would constitute a violation of the bag limit if you were to fish at Minersville, or Kolob reservoirs.
Just to throw this into the mix. Possession limit is suppossed to be twice the aily bag limit correct?
The daily bag limit for perch at DC is 10, at Rockperch it is 20, at Jordonelle it is 50 perch.
What is the possession limit? Is it 100 because of the J regulation or is it 20 because of DC? Or is it 40 which is 2x the statewide regulation which makes the daily bag limit at J illegal.
I asked a CO to explain this to me and his answer was that if you have in your possession a legal limit, you must stop fishing. I agree that this is a very vague issue, because I was at a pond that held trout, bass, bluegill and catfish.
He said that I would need to keep three or less fish in order to keep fishing for any additional fish in the pond. The pond is a 4 fish total, any combination, limit pond. It made sense to me at the time but the catch and release waters does bring up questions again about what he told me. Can you legally fish for fish that you must release? Of course you can but it does put some questions into ones mind about the possession rules.
Nope. It used to be twice the daily bag limit. That one was changed about the same time that they allowed non licensed anglers to take a full bag limit, if I’m not mistaken. It could have been even earlier than that.
If you are going to fish Deer Creek, Rockport, and Jordanelle on the same day, you should go to Deer Creek first. You can keep 10 perch there. Then go to Rockport. You can keep 10 more there. If you were to keep 20 from there, you would seem to be in compliance with the regs there, except the 10 that you caught at Deer Creek must be included in that number. So 10 from Rockport if you already have 10 from Deer Creek. Now you can go to Jordanelle and keep 30 more. If you were to fish them in reverse order, you could only be in possession of 10 perch by the time you left Deer Creek. You’ll notice that I didn’t say you could fish Deer Creek while in possession of your 10 perch. WHY? Because you cannot legally release any perch that you might catch there this time of year. So, you’d better only have 9 perch when you get there, and only ten when you leave. Even though you fished other waters that had more liberal limits. Clear as mud?
I asked a CO to explain this to me and his answer was that if you have in your possession a legal limit, you must stop fishing.
Next time, ask him to show you where it says that in the proclamation. You do carry one with you when you are fishing, dontcha? It doesn’t, by the way.
WOW what a can of worms this has turned into!!!
To answer PBH’s question, I didn’t keep the 4th fish so I could continue to fish. The reason I brought this up was last time out on Causey, all 3 of us in our group had 3 Kokes, the one guy caught a huge Koke. We debated for a minute and decided that 9:00 am was too early to quit so he let it go and we fished some more. It sucked having to let such a nice tasty fish like that go but what do you do, we were there to fish.
I personaly don’t like the taste of trout, (most fish actually) so I only keep them to give to my grandparents who love them. We (my kids and I) usually only take a limit of rainbows 3 or 4 times a year. Thats plenty for the grands to eat.
I prefer the catch, photo, release method. I just thought that this would be an interesting post to see what you all do since there is no clear cut answer.
Someone earlier said that you could call the DWR and get an answer, but from my previous experiences you would get better answers from your dog. Some of the people that work there have no clue as to what the rules are, and if you get to talk to an officer then you just have HIS interpretation of the rule.
Like I said before I’ll just keep up to 1 short of the limit, until I decide it’s time to quit!!
Woh, woh, woh…slow down there Elkaholic!!! You are thinking logically, and rationally!! We cannot have that on this site!