I’m all for the “Kamloops” or Gerrard Rainbow too. Utah has a hard time finding water that will keep them alive. In their native ranges they feed on Kokanee populations for forage. I say put them in Porcupine, the Gorge and Fish lake and see what happens. They(fish and game), when they can get them, keep putting in warm water bodies of water (like Mantua) and they just die off. The lakes they strain originated from are big, deep and cold. Put them in a lake like that here in Utah and I think they’d do great too.
RE" I don’t understand why you guys are trying for doubles. Swing for the freakin’ fence and hit a home-run!
KAMLOOPS RAINBOWS!!! "
Yeah, and put them in Minersville first. 
A couple more points.
RE"I don’t want the same fate to befall the Pilot Lahontan."
You do realize that they are now where they belong, back in Pyramid lake. Unless the tribe that owns PL suffers collective insanity, they will continue to be stocked and be very safe there. NDOW has used other strains of Lahontans in other areas they have restored, as it should be. There is also a large hatchery stock of the Pyramid lake fish present too. They are in no danger.
RE"The problem here is that, from what I have read is that this “historic” fish was what was found in Utah Lake. There are reports of those Cutts going over 40 pounds!! Problem is, they have been eliminated entirely. They may have been that special subspecies of Bonneville that gets that big, but now are gone forever. "
That is what was said of the Pyramid lake fish too. How do we know that certain BL cutts near UL or even not wouldn’t perform similarly well when put into a situation where they could succeed?
Along the same lines;
RE"The Bonneville found everywhere else in the state don’t even come close to this potential (at least not on a regular basis). "
When have they really been given the chance? You restore them to headwater streams, as has been done, and you’ll get small fish, regardless of strain. Put them in a prey rich lake like Pyramid with ideal conditions (and special regs so they don’t get caught out) and who knows…
10,000 years is just a moment evolutionarily speaking.
The Bear Lake Strain is unique only to Bear Lake. They are not found naturally anywhere else in the state. That can be debated too I’m sure. They have all the space a feed they could ever want, yet do not reach over 20 lbs.
Strawberry res. for example, would have 40 pounders if the genetics were there. No question. No 40 pounders yet (although the state record is like 27 from back in the thirties).
I believe that the that the Cutts (a now extinct strain/ subspecies of the Bonneville) from Utah Lake are a lake dwelling strain and thus were slightly different than those found in the rivers and smaller lakes throughout the rest of Utah.
The Pilot Peak Lahontans are back in Pyramid, but so are also the smaller strains form surrounding lakes that were transplanted years and years ago. There is a risk that the Pilot Peak strain will hybridize with the smaller species of Lahontans and as a result no longer have a PURE strain of mammoth cutts.
What I am saying is that we put them in another body to try and keep the strain PURE for future propagation, whether it be in Nevada or Utah.
http://dwrcdc.nr.utah.gov/rsgis2/search/Display.asp?FlNm=oncoclhe
Looks like Utah recognizes them. It sounds like if nothing else, by way of the Endangered Species Act, we should do what we can to save them.
Of course they are recognized. Nobody is disputing this. Even PBH will grant you that the PL strain will do exceptionally well in ideal conditions. Who is saying that they are not?
Look, absolutely nothing you have posted above is new or news to me. If you are reeeeeeaaaally bored, you will find that I myself have posted just about everything you have said here on BFT at one time or another. I am all for saving the PL strain fish and am anxious to see how big they get. Early reports look encouraging too. If conditions allow, I also wouldn’t argue about putting a few in a suitable lake here. (The problem is we don’t have too many Pyramid or even Walker lakes sitting around) But, what I also am trying to suggest is that our good old Bonnevilles may be less boring than one might think and may hold some exciting management surprises too. I would be curious to find out.
One last point and I’m out.
“Strawberry res. for example, would have 40 pounders if the genetics were there. No question. No 40 pounders yet (although the state record is like 27 from back in the thirties).”
Two questions; First, how can a cutt get truly large when it is harvested as soon as it hits 22 1/8 inches?
Second, what was the strain of the 27 pounder?
Ahhh the good old days. I love looking at the old fishing pictures with 10 or more trophy fish hanging behind them. But then there was no Walmart?
Pyramid is also Artificial Flies or Lures. That can up the game and lessen mortality risks, which to mean, more fish are caught and released. Something that would benefit most lakes. Like Strawberry.
Everyone is so passionate about introducing Tiger Trout to other waters, My vote is for Lahontan,
If nothing else, I hope I have helped amuse the all knowing PBH 
Utah is not the native range of browns, rainbows, brookies, goldens, lakers, kokanee, tigers(hybrid), splake(hybrid) and all of their subspecies, not to mention ALL of the warm water species yet they ALL get planted throughout the state.
Sterilize these big cutts and lets just see what happens. We don’t have anything to lose do we? Maybe we could put them into an isolated fishery (fertile fish) and to our part to keep an already endangered species from going extinct. Once they are stable in their native ranges we can remove them from the ecosystem they were planted in.
I like the possibilities.Bad as I hate to say it, but sterilazation = mutations. I’ve seen it in tiger trout and sterile brook trout. Wish it weren’t true with the brook trout because we CANNOT lose them from our alpine lakes, no matter the saccrifice. Native or not, brook trout are a must. When Utah abandons them, I leave. One or two alpine lakes with cutthroat are enough in Utah.
Not sure, but I’m betting it was a Yellowstone.
Well, I have better things to do with my time than research old posts. What I do have time for is sharing ideas, not getting in pi$$ing matches with all knowing personalities. It took a long time to decide to join this forum because of all this type of “I’m smarter than you” stuff.
For your information, I am not bored with the Bonneville. the Bear Lake strain is without doubt the coolest fish in Utah. it is the only trout species that actually gains weight in the winter. Gorgeous and aggressive. Best trout out there.
I just wanted to share a thought about another cool species of Cutt, besides the Bonneville.
Done. Moving on.
If nothing else, I hope I have helped amuse the all knowing PBH
well…I’m still reading, and I’m still laughing!
Sure. Put Kamloops in Minersville. They’ll still get eaten by cormorants and pelicans before they get to be 12"!!
Strain isn’t the bottleneck. Most of you get this. Some don’t. So, they post funny stuff about growing 40lb cutthroat in Strawberry. They don’t get the fact that they get harvested at 22", no matter what the strain.
Bear Lake cutts are NOT the only trout to pack on weight during the winter. Come down to Minersville and look at the growth rates the rainbow trout experience during a winter!! And, they aren’t even kamloops!!
fun stuff. Keep it coming.
I love the idea of stocking some lahontans in some of our reservoirs…all for it! But, I think some of you are missing a very important point–where do we get these fish from? Right now, the state of Utah is really concerned about getting good populations of bonnevilles and cr cutts established back in their native waters. In order for lahontans to be stocked, there has to be a source. Right now, the only source for those fish is from those tiny streams around Pilot Peak. To be able to stock these fish around Utah, a brood source/brood lake must be established and lahontans must be raised. Right now, Utah isn’t about to start using their resources to raise lahontans and take the steps to establish a brood program when they are so caught up with the native strains of cutts and getting them going and established and keeping them going and established…
OK, one more on the subject.
RE “I love the idea of stocking some lahontans in some of our reservoirs…all for it! But, I think some of you are missing a very important point–where do we get these fish from?”
and
“Right now, the only source for those fish is from those tiny streams around Pilot Peak.”
Actually, the Pilot/Pyramid fish are readily available and as I tried to explain to N-A-P, they are in no immediate danger of extinction. The National fish hatchery stocks 300,000-400,000 fish **annually **to multiple lakes. 780,000 have been put into Pyramid lake alone the past few years. The lakes they stock also are monitored for genetic purity and Pyramid lake hasn’t had available natural reproduction since the late 30’s, due to a river diversion. The below link explains a great deal more and is quite interesting.
http://www.fws.gov/lahontannfhc/index.html
There is however a reason why these fish may **not **be suited to be stocked in Strawberry and elsewhere. (besides the reasons that have already been hashed over). Pyramid lake is highly alkaline and the fish are adapted to alkaline water. They may do quite poorly in neutral PH or a slightly acidic water. For that reason alone, they may not survive or they may struggle even compared to our more mundane varieties in our lakes. That said, if we had a very alkaline lake that was not hospitable to other strains, Lahontans may just fit the bill nicely, and who knows, we might get them. I don’t know of any such highly alkaline lakes, but there may be one out there.
“Right now, the only source for those fish is from those tiny streams around Pilot Peak.”
Actually, the Pilot/Pyramid fish are readily available and as I tried to explain to N-A-P, they are in no immediate danger of extinction. The National fish hatchery stocks 300,000-400,000 fish **annually **to multiple lakes. 780,000 have been put into Pyramid lake alone the past few years. The lakes they stock also are monitored for genetic purity and Pyramid lake hasn’t had available natural reproduction since the late 30’s, due to a river diversion. The below link explains a great deal more and is quite interesting.
My point was that Utah has no source for those fish…sure they could go to Nevada and try to work out some kind of deal to get some of those Nevada fish, BUT 1) there is a strong likelihood that Nevada–even though Nevada raises 300-400,000 fish each year–has enough fish to give away. The reality is that that area–Truckee River, Pyramid Lake, Walker Lake, and Lake Tahoe among others–contains a lot of water and requires a lot of fish being stocked to maintain. What makes you think that the National Fish Hatchery has excess fish? And, 2), if Nevada does have excess fish, are they going to have enough fish for it to be worthwhile to even stock them? Many of our reservoirs would require probably over 100,000 fish a year to establish any kind of population. Also, 3), again, I don’t believe Utah wants to commit any resources towards establishing lahontans in Utah or, as you suggest, going out of state to buy them. As far as cutthroat go, Utah is committed to using its resources on native fishes. The reality is that if Utah were to get serious about lahontans, they would be looking into establishing a program in Utah where lahontans could be raised and would not have to be purchased…and that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon!
All I have left to comment is start planning your road trip if you want to fish for Pyramid Lake LCT. I was eyeing a nice 6 ft ladder at Home Depot for $60. Any one have suggestions for a good shooting head line for 6-8 wt fly rods? Might go in a couple weeks if I can get the time. It’s a huge lake. It’ll be a trial run so when there are a lot more big LCT in a few years I’ll hopefully know what I’m doing.
Not sure we actually have a great deal to disagree about, but if the Utah DWR was serious about Lahontans in a certain lake, they probably would indeed go to Nevada and ask for a few hundred to start a brood stock program. I doubt that would be much of a problem for Nevada. They have previously sold some (non) PL Lahontans to Washington state for use in some alkaline lakes up there. As the second part of my previous post stated, I doubt that we even have a suitable lake for them and I am not holding my breath that it will ever take place for the reasons we have all thrashed to a pulp.
Lastly, I think Riverdog has the right idea. How long does that ladder have to be?
All you need is a three step folding ladder. (27 dollars at home depo) A full sink tip will work good you just want it to sink fast. The key is to drag it up the sandy drop offs in the lake. The other method is to drop two chromanids under a indicator. I have been six times and it is easy to figure out not really any secret spots just go to a beach and fish and you might get lucky. My biggest is 26 inches and probably 6 pounds. And a friend of mine caught a 32 that was twelve pounds. But most are 20 to 23 inches. Good luck.
A good friend of mine goes there often. He took some time to make this video but he did a killer job of it.
Nice video, I like the under water shots.
If Cutts did not wallow like that they would be a lot more fun.
Yeah, all trout in still water wallow. You have to make it up with increased size. Compared to stream fishing you divide the weight by 2 for most trout. Cutts divide wt by 3 and lake trout divide by 10 to get the stream equivalent. That’s the formula I swear by in deciding where to fish[;)].
The very recent reports have Pyramid fishing slowing down and water temp expected expected to rise further. The earliest I can get 3 days in would be May 18-20. Might have to wait for next season to go.
Yeah, all trout in still water wallow. You have to make it up with increased size. Compared to stream fishing you divide the weight by 2 for most trout. Cutts divide wt by 3 and lake trout divide by 10 to get the stream equivalent. That’s the formula I swear by in deciding where to fish[;)].
The very recent reports have Pyramid fishing slowing down and water temp expected expected to rise further. The earliest I can get 3 days in would be May 18-20. Might have to wait for next season to go.I’m glad you didn’t imply that brook trout wallow. Brook trout in alpine lakes refuse to wallow. Also with brook trout instead of dividing the weight by two you multiply by approximately 1.5.[;)]