ON YOUR STARVATION POINT. WELL DID YA KNOW THERE ARE 5 YR CLASSES OF PERCH IN THERE NOW. AND THE BASS IM NOT A FAN OF THEM OR THE RAINBOWS. SO I DONT CARE ABOUT THEM SMALLEIS SO MUTCH. NOW THE WALLEYES AND PERCH I DO BECAUSLE THEY ARE THE ONLY FISH I CONSUME. IF NOT FOR SOME OLD TIMERS THAT TOOK THINGS IN THEIR HANDS I WOULD HAVE WAY LESS PLACES TO FISH FOR GOOD EATING FISH. SO FOR THOSE ELEGLE PLANTS IM NOT WINING AT ALL. JUST THE TROUT FANNATIC,S WINE ABOUT IT.
Brookiegirl, go back and read the thread…neither PBH nor myself said anything about bucket biology until one of this sites moderators supported what these idiots have done. Maybe you should look farther than us for controversy…Predator started it not us. If you don’t like us talking about the stupidity of some fishermen, don’t read it. What is it you want? A jolly site for back slapping buddies or a forum for open discussion? How can you say that “we” do not support illegal activities when people come on here an openly say that they are glad that bucket biologists have done the things they have done? Personally, I have had a belly full of people like you who blame crap on us when we haven’t done a (you cannot swear on the board) thing on this thread but respond to others. (no personal attacks) edited for introudcution of illegal response.
Am I missing something here? Predator posted his point of view about bucket biology and fully expected PBH or someone else likeminded to respond. Why are you so upset about that? I don’t see anything wrong about this discussion. PBH presented several good questions on his post. If members of this board are going to question the DWR on everything they do don’t be surprised if other members respond to those questions and present their ideas and feelings on the issues. I don’t know PBH or Predator or or any of the people that have hashed this out before, so I’m not a cheerleader for either side, but I really appreciate the fact that Utah fishermen can discuss these issues on a public forum where I can hopefully learn something from it. Thank you all.
Brookie – it’s just a discussion, just like Predator asked for. I didn’t start this thing, so don’t blame me…
BLM – A moderator of BFT reflects BFT. If he supports bucket biology, then what does that say about BFT?
Cross – again, fishermen have very short memories, and only want to remember the good times. There were once 5 year age class chubs in Starvation also. Where are they now?
You guys can complain about me being the rabble rouser all you want, but the only thing I’m doing is discussing the issues that are brought up on this site. I haven’t started anything. Just responded.
Still – no one has given me a case where the DWR screwed things up. I can give instances where this has happened. I’m not claiming them to be perfect. But, why can no one else give me examples? We can give examples of the other side all day long…
Holy crap batman it’s a cat fight!!!
You are a bunch of old cows looking for something to bitch about. I know of a great place where all of you can go it’s called Relief Society. There you can talk about your hormones and menopause. How you get hot flashes and crap like that.
I really am sick of threads turning into a F’in pissing contest. This is the biggest reason I don’t post much anymore it just makes me sick. It used to be I was the only jackass on here sturing up crap on the off topic board. But it has got to disgusting even for my gut here.
You need to be able to differentiate between an individual’s views (or taunts) and the site’s policies and opinions. I think 90% of everyone here has figured that out. I believe that when a moderator posts his personal opinions people here understand that, well, at least most of them do.
I’m not thrilled that Predator baited you and wormandbobber and the expected responses ensued but I am not Predator’s keeper nor am I yours. Your insistence that BFT promotes, condones, and supports illegal activities because of the topics individuals decide to pursue is absolutely ridiculous.
BLM – that’s fine. I respect your opinion on that.
It’s very frustrating for me to read a post like Predator’s. It’s very irresponsible. It’s also frustrating to see the support that a post like Predator’s get’s from other members of this site. Next time I make a comment about BFT supporting and promoting illegal activities, I’ll make sure that I point those allegations towards the members, and not the site itself. Remember, this site is what we all make of it. And, if that means that we make this site a harbor for new species introductions at the whim of self-gratification, so be it.
So, after this thread sat for a day without much of any response – who actually set the bait? And, more importantly, who took it?
Well said BLM. Bout time someone let these two have it. I’ve not posted for a long time because of just this kind of CRAP, but I’m not gonna let it stop me now, (edited for personal refeence), why is it that you two think that your opinion on any topic is the first, last and best? It’s now become apparent that no one knows more about anything than you. I bow down before all knowing omnipotent fishgods. LMAO
If I was as convinced of my superiority as you apparently are, I couldn’t live with it. This IS a fun site. Most of us get on here to enjoy hearing about what’s going on and not who’s trying to get whom riled up. Fishing IS about having fun and YEP, sometimes about BACKSLAPPING instead of BACKSTABBING.
(edited by predator for issues with the content)
BLM I am not baiting PBH, PBH is decent guy. I dont want to fight with him.
PBH and I just have a different opinion. I dont want to encourage bucket biology, I just said I was one of many fishermen who enjoy the benefits of past bucket biology events.
Every weekend in this state anglers tagert species that were illegally introduced into the water they are fishing.
And they like it! Otherwise they wouldnt be fishing there for that species.
I do enjoy fishing for fish that were illegally planted. I do enjoy the benefits of having great fisheries no matter how they got that way.
I like that the DWR accidentally introuduced gizzard shad into lake powell and thier screw up is turning around that fishery. Thier act of bucket biology has been a great thing.
Saying that I enjoy fisheries that are a result of bucket biology is not saying I support bucket biology, but some will take it that way.
Its ok to have a truthful discussion, the truth is there are some great fisheries in this state that are a result of bucket biology, and there are some people brave enough to admit that.
But if you dont like one mans opinion here I am issueing you a warning, dont attack the man. That will get you banned. I have already edited a couple posts due to personal attacks and swearing.
This is your warning, dont take yourself too seriously. State your opinions and issues and leave it at that.
I FEEL THE SAME WAY YOU DO ON IT. I DONT CONDONE IT BUT I DO AND WILL CONTINUE TO ENJOY WHAT OTHERS HAVE CREATED AS FAR AS OPPORTUNITIES FOR IT HAS SERVERD US ALL TO ONE DEGREE OR ANOTHER.
Predator, read your second paragraph. I hope that you meen I don’t support!!![;)]
No need to ban me, predator. I understand. They can attack us all they want but we’re not allowed to respond in kind. This’ll probably be my last post. I’ve seen all I can stomach. This isn’t my first go 'round with pbh and his ilk.
I don’t understand what the problem is. If a lake has fish in it, why not fish there? Regardless, of how they got there umpteen years ago, the fish aren’t going to go away. You can’t tell me that a whole lot of research went into planting most of the fish in the state when non-native species were first introduced into most of the lakes in the state. It was probably a “Gee, what a good spot for some rainbows”, or what ever else was put there. You guys that fish for any fish but native cutthroat species are all taking advantage of bucket biology. I understand that nowadays the DWR uses a bit more thought process than this, but back when they hauled brookies into the Boulder Mountain by mule back in milk cans there sure wasn’t more to it than “Hey, I wonder how they’d do there.” So whine all you want. You fish in Utah, you are gonna be fishing for something that doesn’t belong there. Don’t know about what you guys think and frankly I don’t care. I’m going fishing for some NON-NATIVE species. See you on the lake…/
Predator – you are not alone. Many of us benefit from illegal introductions. Heck, we all benefit from introductions, whether legal or not. But, we also suffer from many introductions as well. That needs to be brought out. The majority of illegal introductions have serious negative effects. Case in point, look at the new state record Tiger Trout that came from Moosman Lake on the Boulder Mountain. This lake has been a cutthroat/tiger trout lake for over 10 years. Prior to that, it was a stunted brook trout lake. The spawning habitat is fantastic for brook trout, which caused a stunting situation. The lake has been void of brook trout for many years, and provided fantastic fishing for large cutts and tigers for many years now. However, brook trout have now been found in the lake. This is sad, because stunting is now eminent. It doesn’t matter if a bucket biologist did this, or if the DWR’s arial stocking program had yet another screw up. Either way, fishermen do NOT benefit in the long run. After a few years, fishermen who enjoy this little beauty of a lake, will suffer.
For matter of clarification: The DWR did NOT introduce Gizzard Shad into Lake Powell. That was done by the Federal Government in New Mexico:
While the origin of the new species in Powell is unknown it has been reported by US Fish and Wildlife Service that gizzard shad were accidentally introduced into Morgan Lake near Shiprock, NM with a shipment of largemouth bass in 1998. The bass came from Inks Dam National Fish Hatchery in south-central Texas in the Rio Colorado drainage where gizzard shad are abundant in the surface water used at the hatchery. Subsequent loads of bass transported to Morgan Lake from the hatchery were found to have as many as 9 different species besides largemouth bass (fish species included Guadalupe bass, logperch, gizzard shad, white bass, bluegill, and dollar sunfish). These shipments were refused but gizzard shad were already firmly established in Morgan Lake…
**
[b][b][b][b][b][b][b]…[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]One single adult gizzard shad was collected from Lake Powell in 2000 near the San Juan inflow. This fish was suspected to be a downstream migrant from Morgan Lake.**
So, your claim of Lake Powell and the gizzard shad being a product of bucket biology on the UDWR’s part is incorrect. I’m not nit-picking, just clarifying.
****
brookieboy-- you said “most of us get on here to enjoy hearing about whats going on and not who’s trying to get whom riled up.” I found your last post to be very contradictory, because you were the first and only one on this thread to make personal attacks on two other members (I saw it before it was edited). You also said you haven’t posted in a long time because of this kind of “crap”. Apparently this kind of “crap” is just what it takes to get you actively posting on the disscussions.
Like I said before, I think these disscussions are a healthy part of BFT, but personal attacks just aren’t cool man.
a bit more clarification…
From what I understand, the UDWR actually wanted to get Gizzard Shad in Lake Powell, but has always been unable to do so due to Federal Regulations. That something that fishermen often forget about. When Endangered Species enter the equation of fisheries management, you have a whole new ballgame to deal with. In an ironic twist of fate, it was the same agency (Feds) the was preventing the UDWR from providing a better suited forage fish in Lake Powell, that ended up introducing them by mistake.
I could give lots of other mistakes that the UDWR has done, mostly by arial stocking mistakes…but, my whole point in this discussion is that I can live with a mistake made by someone we have entrusted with the duties of managing our resources. I cannot tolerate the same things happening by individuals that do not fully understand the consequences of new species introductions.
I think this discussion is pretty much done. Good discussion. Thanks to all for participating – including the brookmeister.
hey tubedude,you seem like u are really knowledgeable about this fishing game.u always seem to have good answers and solutions to alot of quistions on this board.i hardly ever post but read on a regular basis.and really enjoy the group of people on bft who are willing to give valuable info and share ther knowledge with everyone.i guess i need to get in on the fun.any how i remember reading an article on this topic in the past about yellow perch die offs up north and they said it was a natural occurence in all lakes.but there were alot of factors involving how much u would really notice the die off.1 factor i remember was food availability(a major factor)small fry feed on algea and plancton,bigger fish feed on fry,and large fish feed on them.something that all of us already no of course.but here is the prob with drought conditions,waters come up in spring from run off fish spawn in the shallows,water is drained or used and drops before the hatch do to low lake conditions already.resulting in no small fry for larger fish to feed on.this is a factor that starts kind of a domino afect.the sey that it takes 4 years of normal fry hatch to make up for one bad hatch.and bring the food cycle back to normal.for example when the perch die off happens it is usually the larger that die but u wont notice a real impact because u still have the fish that are from the previous years hatches.so one year with eggs left high and dry , let alone several years of high and dry bad hatches here in utah,when the die of does happen it pretty much wipes them out for years because ther is no youger fish to replace them.drought is oviously a major factor for our perch problem here in utah.i think we have all been spoiled from the last three years at rock port and thought and never really thoght about what was comming.well here we are…just like pineview.pineview has been at terrible low water levels for the last few years.several dry hatches.bass, crappie,perch all have taken a turn in a bad way there.no hatches,no foooood.also when water levels are below the weeds and forage ther is alot less algea and plankton for the fry that do hatch to feed on and also alot less oxigen.oh well i could go on and on but i really suck at typing and my fingers are cramping up from typing in an hour what most people can do in 5 minutes. anyways good fishing everyone…
Hey Bullseye6, you are pretty much on target. (Sorry. Couldn’t help myself.)
Glad you enjoy the board. You don’t post often but when you do, you unload. Many of the points you make have been made on this and other threads. What it boils down to is that the perch are not native to our lakes and they have to either make do or die.
Native habitat for perch is deeper and more stable lakes, with lots of aquatic vegetation (for spawning and protection of young) and lots of minnows and other forage for all sizes of fish. That includes the algae and plankton in the food chain for newly hatched fry.
**As you and others have observed, our lakes are used for irrigation and they usually rise and fall quite a bit each year. Whenever the water levels are not high enough to cover shoreline weeds and stickups, the perch have no spawning habitat. If they do dump their eggs, and the eggs hatch, the fry have no place to hide from predators. That results in poor recruitment (survival) for that year and a whole “year class” is wiped out. **
**Combine heavy harvest (Rockport) with poor spawns and major dieoffs and CRASH-O. The population goes from boom to bust in one year. And all the perchaholics start jumping off their tackle boxes. **
We live in a time and a nation where we expect instant fixes and instant gratification. GOD GIVE ME PATIENCE…AND I WANT IT RIGHT NOW. Inside we know that things will probably stabilize and the fish populations will come back, over time. But, we don’t wanna wait. So we holler at DWR to quickly dump in a few truckloads of catchable size perch so that we can resume harvesting.
If there is any species that does not require massive stockings it is perch. If even a handful survived the dieoffs and depletion of this past year, it will not be long before we see hordes of them again. It might take a few years, but they will be back…in their own good time. Other than smallmouths and some piscivorous trout, there is not a major predator population (walleyes) in Rockport. Yeah, it’s different in Pineview and Jordanelle, but not really. Perch (and nature) will find a way.
So, Bull, when your fingers heal up from that last big post, come on back and share some reports with us. Good to have ya on board.