In a way that is good to hear BUT how many times do or have they said this without anything coming from them??
It seems that the longer they put us off by the studies the more we forget and the less we care..
For one the dwr doesnt necessirly make the changes if i remember right…? They suggest changes and the board decides on it. Which if i remember this right is made up of 7 or so people and i think more than half are civilans such as you bassrods also i do remember last year you ripping into a young kid about how he didnt take pictures so he wasnt really catching the fish he said he was and when he finaly posted them you made fun of him… So no picture no fish were caught…
+1
I gotta agree on this one big time [;)].
I just don’t understand if he’s complaining so much about the fish here why doesn’t he move to a different state where there’s big bass.
The bells aren’t ringing right in my ears.
The over-harvest theorists at work again…There are no big bass because they all get harvested? But if there is no big bass, then how are they getting harvested? That is the question that no over-harvest theorist has been able to answer yet.
You need to get your facts in right, First the dwr and Drew had been trying to change the regs. for two years before they got them changed..It was the DWR who was pushing for them..
Let me try to explain..The big fish before the change was bass over 19" with a few over 20"..
Then came the spear hunters and they took out lots of the bigger bass along with the fisherman that now could keep them..The size dropped to 17" for the bass and by the second year the size dropped even more..
Till now this year the bigger bass size is 15" to 16"..
The bigger fish don’t die off all at once they was caught or speared..Bass grow slow on average 1 1/2" to 2" per year and at that rate how long does it take to grow the bass to 19"..
Some are saying that the fish are over populated with to many small fish, that is fair from the truth..
six years ago the lake had two X the number of fish as it does now..
The more fish you have with bigger ones as well the better they will all do..
Other states have found out that if you harvest all or most of the bigger fish the lake gets out of balance and soon all you have is little fish..That is what we have on most if not all lakes along the Wasatch front ..
Big fish eat little fish bass eat bass, trout, perch, chubs, and so on the more little fish you have the more and bigger big fish you can have..
Then some say that in winter the plankton die off (witch it does) and then the over numbers of small fish die off too witch feeds the bigger fish til spring then the bigger fish lay more eggs and it all starts again..But you need to have lots of fish to spawn and keep the bigger fish in the lakes for it all to work..
This even works when we have low water years as well..Big fish spawn to make there own food…
tell me this if you know so much and are so certain that this theory of yours will work why are you not 1 working for the DWR to change it or 2 on the wildlife board to fix it… try for once to be apart of the solution and not the problem… do your part and hope others do the same that’s all you can really do till you either become a biologist or on the wildlife board. also tubedude has lots and lots of knowledge on this stuff… he reads, studies and gets in contact with people who really know about this stuff… so when he speaks you might want to listen with an open mind and good attitude… just a little advice to you…
You don’t care enough about a 26 1/4" trout to take a photo of it, but you care enough to measure it down to a 1/4 of an inch? Seems odd…
You don’t care enough about a 26 1/4" trout to take a photo of it, but you care enough to measure it down to a 1/4 of an inch? Seems odd…
how dare you question the all knowing and all mighty bass rods, he knows whats best for this lake, not the highly educated and dedicated DWR folks how spend years studying these things trying to make for a better fishing experience for all anglers, have you no shame?
ugh…
Unlike TV which adds 10 pounds, photos of trout make them instantly lose 10 inches.
To say that bass only grow 1 to 2 inches a year is untrue. The growth rates of any fish species are going to be effected by many factors including but not limited to food, cover (number of fish utilizing these structures), overall population of all fish in the body of water (space in the lake), water temps, and growing season of the fish. It is an evolutionary trait for most species of sport fish to put on the majority of their length in the first 3-7 years of life. So that being said a 20 inch bass isn’t necessarily 15-20 years old same as a 16 inch bass is not 8-16 years old as the 1.5 to 2 inch a year would suggest. After fish reach this point the growth curve for length slows dramatically though most fish will continue to put on girth after reaching this point. Once a large population of a species reach this size the body of water becomes “stunted” and very few if any fish manage to grow to the next size class. At that point there are few options to get the fish back into a pattern of growth. In many western reservoirs the only feasible way to successfully do this is to lower the number of overall fish in the reservoir thus the new regs. To say the reservoir changed in a year sounds off to me. The only changes that i believe could have had as drastic an effect as you are claiming are biological not regulatory. Regs do not have the ability to change the size class of an entire population in one year.
To say that bass only grow 1 to 2 inches a year is untrue. The growth rates of any fish species are going to be effected by many factors including but not limited to food, cover (number of fish utilizing these structures), overall population of all fish in the body of water (space in the lake), water temps, and growing season of the fish. It is an evolutionary trait for most species of sport fish to put on the majority of their length in the first 3-7 years of life. So that being said a 20 inch bass isn’t necessarily 15-20 years old same as a 16 inch bass is not 8-16 years old as the 1.5 to 2 inch a year would suggest. After fish reach this point the growth curve for length slows dramatically though most fish will continue to put on girth after reaching this point. Once a large population of a species reach this size the body of water becomes “stunted” and very few if any fish manage to grow to the next size class. At that point there are few options to get the fish back into a pattern of growth. In many western reservoirs the only feasible way to successfully do this is to lower the number of overall fish in the reservoir thus the new regs. To say the reservoir changed in a year sounds off to me. The only changes that i believe could have had as drastic an effect as you are claiming are biological not regulatory. Regs do not have the ability to change the size class of an entire population in one year.
Everything you wrote is accurate, but since you are new here, there is something you need to realize. Cliff/bassrods has repeatedly stated that he does not believe it is possible for warmwater fish in a lake to stunt. They just “grow very slowly”.
I have tried to get on the board I have been going to the RAC meetings up and over the state..
I have got ahold of other Fish& Game people from other states and found out what they have done to make the fishing better in there state with bass..One of the people that work for the Federal Fishery in North or South Dakota (not sure if N or So) cause they raze small mouth for lots of the States..We got some from them for Jordanelle even..
They told me about how and why lakes get mostly small bass and why, and how the best management for this not to happen is with a slot limit..
We have them here at the Berry for trout and many other states have them on some of the best bass lakes in this country..
This is not what I have thought up on my own but what I have found from other states..
I was even told what would happen to Jordanelle before they changed the REGS.. and I posted it on here, I want to help not hurt the fishing..
If the DWR is going to do something?? Why are they not saying what they want to do?? Many of us would like to help but the last time I talked to Drew at the RAC meeting in SLC he told me I should keep my mouth shut and let them study things..
How many times has the federal Gov. lied to us people in the past, how many times has the state lied to us just to gain more time so we mite forget about what they are doing..
Look at our water?? and the 1,000,000 gals that is being taken from Deer creek and Jordanelle per day..
And this was just brought to light in the last 6 months or so..Low water yes..
Would I like to help YES, this is the only way I can see to help at this time..
Any one that has seen my boat or fished with me know I have two ways of measuring on the front deck of my boat one reads over 40", + I have a tape in my pocket all the time..
You see when I fished the BASSMASTER’s tournaments I had to know as fast as I could what fish was smaller, in any body of water the fish run the same weight per inch most of the time…
As said by the Utah DWR and the US Fishery the average growth of Small Mouth bass is 1 1/2" to 2" per year..Do you know what “average” is??
And the bass in Jordanelle has in all gill net studys I have looked at show this to be TRUE..
And they are done by the DWR..
O that’s right I forgot I heard that you were like some pro bassmaster haha jk I never heard that… Also not sure what lakes you fish but I see big fish come out of all lakes other than pelican… Anyways I’m sure we all have made our point you talk and don’t hear the things you say
Ok guys, this has gone on long enough, no one will change anyones opinion here, so lets let this thread die.
You don’t have to get mad..All I am trying to do is help, and the DWR wants to wait and see or study it for a few more years..
Why not try what I have been told and what other states have shown to work on a lake or two til the DWR comes up with something else and just see??
Doing nothen is not working now is it??
**Most lakes in Utah are difficult to “manage”. Anglers and regulations have far less impact on the rise and fall of fish populations than fluctuating water levels, food resources, etc. No matter what DWR tries to accomplish their plans are subject to factors over which they have no control.
Jordanelle is no different than hundreds of other lakes around the country It is very fertile and prolific in the early years. Then it declines as the nutrient levels drop and the species establish their own balance. Without supplemental plantings of something besides rainbow trout the non-trout species are subject to stunting or overharvesting.
Jordanelle has needed a large population of crawdads to help feed the smallies. Yes, the big chubs still spawn, but their young are vacuumed up as soon as they are large enough to eat. There are no identifiable populations of small chubs in the lake at all…so perch young are the primary forage. And when the perch crashed a few years ago, so did the smallies.
In a desert state we are subject to wide swings of water runoff each year. Two or three poor water years in a row and it doesn’t matter what DWR tries to accomplish. Everything dies off and we start over. That has been the cycle with Yuba and other Utah reservoirs.
**
Drought and low water are big trouble. I used to catch lots of crappies in Echo, water got too low 3-4 years in a row and the baby crappies had no place to hide. I literally NEVER hear of anyone catching them in there anymore.