mojo are you realy from idaho…you must think the world
of your self and the nez-perce. the indians didnt get the salmon seasons going again the fish and game did.
and just a note all the fish in the weir that are left go to the indians…is that fair to the idaho tag holders…
Before you guys post something, get your facts straight. The Nez Perce actually do work at the Rapid River Hatchery, They do much of the spawning, fin clipping, and perform much of the work there. Second, they have filed multiple law suits to ensure the Army Corps of Salmon Grinders maintian passage at the dams, directly resulting in the increased numbers of fish returning to Idaho. The IDF&G is a partner in several of thes suits. I suggest you contact any of the anadromous fisheries biologists and get the facts from them.
Speaking of breakind treaties, as some of you have suggested, let’s say we take away the tribe’s rights to fish on the Little Salmon. They then kick us off the Clearwater from the Casino to Kooskia. How’s that fair?
Cooperation works much better than butting up to them.
As for the South Fork, I have fished it and chose not to again. Drunks of many races antagonizing one another is not a place conducive to family fishing fun. I’ll stick with fishing the Big River. Giving the Sho-Ban folks fish they are ENTITLED TO from the weir is fair to the tag holder. I prefer giving them their percentage straght from the trap to them “War Whooping in your face” as someone put it. If they took theirs from the trap, they would not be on the river. By the way, entiled to means they are guaranteed those fish.
I do not “think the world of myself and the Nez Perce”, I just did my research and got the facts before I started spouting off…
By the way, Wild Origin Chinook are by definition naturally spawned (not clipped - yeah I know the argument) chinook. They do not necessarily have to be from a native run. The Little Salmon River run is artificially propogated from a hatchery built by Idaho Power to make up for wiping out the runs above Hell’s Canyon Dam. The fish there were originally from Hell’s Canyon stocks. There are very few wild fish remaining in the LSR, but Hazard Creek has a few native, wild fish. Just a point of clarification…
Im just going to say one thing about the SF wild salmon. Im a fisheries biologist (MT) and was over there this friday with 2 other fish biologists. Only stated for the purpose that we know what a fish is. Anyway, we saw hundreds of young of the year chinook that were not clipped actually rescues several dozen out of a landlocked pool.
Are unclipped chinook fry stocked into the SF river? If they do then that explains what we saw. I doubt it though since we saw no clipped fry. Every little backwater in the rocks and log jams was occupied with unclipped chinnok fingerlings. To me, unless one of the involved groups is stocking these fish, it indicates some level of natural reproduction.
As far as the indians. Live with it. We will lose fishing privliges before they will. They have treaty rights. Like it or not these will go on far longer than we will be around.
phutch30 -
As far as I know the unclipped fish that are trapped at the weir are released to spawn naturally. So yes there is some level of natural reproduction taking place. Which is great but that don’t make them natives in my mind. Maybe that is why the F&G is now beginning to refer to them as “Natural Origin Chinook”? Which I guess makes some sense.
mojo1 -
A few posts back you said the Native American quotas have nothing to do with our quotas. Back when this first started and they gave us hard numbers on the quotas didn’t they just split the extra fish equally between the two? Another words if they got 3,000 fish we got 3,000 fish. Has it changed?
If people want to be pissed at someone over how many salmon the Indians get, then be pissed at the people who made the treaties way back in the 1800s. I’m sure most of them thought they would never be enforced, or at least that it would never be a point of contention. Going back on promises to the Indians and appropriating property and rights given under treaty seemed to be the de facto way of doing business back then.
Considering how many obstacles the salmon have to get through to get downriver and back up, we’re lucky to have any of them to catch at all. Not to mention dangers in the ocean and all the nets and hooks from Washington and Oregon, they have to get by to get here.
Let us not forget that it was the “white man” that wiped out our run of coho salmon, and hardly a word was written about that travesty. And now, thanks totally to the Nez Perce, the run has been resurrected by the tribe. Also, I have personally watched the Shoshone tribe’s fishery biologist do incredible work at Redfish Lake, trying to maintain zooplankton numbers, etc. Trying to besmirch an entire tribe by a few bad sportsmen is, indeed, racism. Thanks to Mojo and StacyR for some good input. Mike
AA, I do not think it is a 50/50 split. I believe sport catch numbers on the South Fork have a bunch of factors including sport take (ESA mortality quota) on the Columbia, Commercial catch on the Columbia etc. That entitles the tribes to more than the sports quota.
where do we fish for coho??? ya they do have some hatcherees i agree. but theys got to do somethin with all the welfare money OUR moneys the goverment ah gives them. i don see big runs of sockeyes comin back either so don’t give the TRIBE all dis credit . you is jus blowin smoke. and they don buy any liscences er tags nothin…so they should work an do somethin
where do we fish for coho??? ya they do have some hatcherees i agree. but theys got to do somethin with all the welfare money OUR moneys the goverment ah gives them. i don see big runs of sockeyes comin back either so don’t give the TRIBE all dis credit . you is jus blowin smoke. and they don buy any liscences er tags nothin…so they should work an do somethin
You can blame the government and BIA for the welfare situation with the Native Americans. They had to give Natives something to try to keep them quiet and from revolting... Keep giving someone a free check and they will take advantage of it. It is human nature...
The same thing is basically going on right now across this country. They keep handing out unemployment checks to just keep everyone happy. Thats why unemployment rates are not really not looking much better... Why look for a job when you can get a free check every week for a year!! Imagine how lazy people would be if the government extended unemployment for 80 years... The whole country would be dead beats! That is basically what the government has done with the Native welfare system.. They made them this way.
Jimmyray- Not to come off as an a**, but holy hell buddy! Invest a couple hundred dollars in some English-Grammar classes. That last post gave me a migraine when I read it.
I have no problem with the Native Americans getting their fair share. It’s the behaviour of a select few, though, that draws my ire. Some of them just have no courtesy or respect, they think their rights extend to bullying and intimidation. I’ve personally experienced these guys just coming down to a hole I’m sharing with a few other anglers and just start lobbing huge weighted treble hooks right through everyone’s drift, snagging everyone’s lines with their 60 lb line and telling anyone who complains to get off their river. One of these days I imagine someone is going to get hurt. Bad.
It really is a sad situation . My wife and I are both Native American ( I am Navajo, wife is Rose Bud sioux)… Being part of the Native American community I have witnessed exactly what you are talking about. It even happens amongst natives ( full bloods feeling superior to half bloods). Its something our community definitely is working on. The misconception that were all like that does drive me a bit nuts though. I can assure you that Native American community leaders do not condone this behavior. It definitely is frowned upon. You really just have to look at those bad apples like any other A**hole that feels entitled = / for some reason or another..
where do we fish for coho??? ya they do have some hatcherees i agree. but theys got to do somethin with all the welfare money OUR moneys the goverment ah gives them. i don see big runs of sockeyes comin back either so don’t give the TRIBE all dis credit . you is jus blowin smoke. and they don buy any liscences er tags nothin…so they should work an do somethin
Have you been paying any attention? A lot of them DO work. BTW, it’s no secret who is responsible for the extinction of the wild Snake River coho, and it sure wasn’t the Indians:
So here’s a quote for you, just in case you’re too lazy to read the whole thing:
“In 1995, the Nez Perce Tribe of Idaho began a reintroduction program by releasing into the Clearwater River Basin 630,000 coho fry reared in Mitchell Act hatcheries in the lower Columbia River. The program has been moderately successful. Coho are known to be opportunistic, prolific spawners, and the first adult returns were noted at Lower Granite Dam in 1997, a total of 85 fish. The number of returning adults grew steadily. In 2000, a total of 891 adults and 36 jacks were counted, a smolt-to-adult return ratio of less than one-tenth of one percent compared to the number of juveniles that had been released, a rate that scientists consider low. The count at Lower Granite topped 1,000 fish for the first time in 2003, and was more than 3,000 in 2004 and more than 2,000 in 2005. Jack counts have increased, as well, consistently topping 100 fish per year. In 2006, for example, a total of 263 jacks were counted at Lower Granite, the highest since 460 were counted in 1976. The 2006 adult count was lower than in recent years — 1,141 — but the trend remains upward.”
So if we ever do get enough coho coming back to support a fishery, you can thank the tribe. Not that you probably would since it’s obvious you’re an ignorant racist troll.
It really is a sad situation . My wife and I are both Native American ( I am Navajo, wife is Rose Bud sioux)… Being part of the Native American community I have witnessed exactly what you are talking about. It even happens amongst natives ( full bloods feeling superior to half bloods). Its something our community definitely is working on. The misconception that were all like that does drive me a bit nuts though. I can assure you that Native American community leaders do not condone this behavior. It definitely is frowned upon. You really just have to look at those bad apples like any other A**hole that feels entitled = / for some reason or another..
Exactly. A fishing friend told me of an experience he had at CJ last year, where he waited all day at the campground below the dam so he could get the best spot for crappie. Finally the people that were in the spot packed up and left, and he moved.
Half an hour later, six guys showed up and proceeded to crowd him out deliberately. As in, they started to fish pretty much shoulder to shoulder on either side of him. He told them he was there first, and the reaction was, “So? What are you going to do about it?”
Apparently since he’s an old man who was there by himself, they thought it was OK to force him out of his spot. I bet they wouldn’t have been so cocky if they knew my friend had a concealed weapons permit and was packing heat.
He caught a fish, turned around and walked a few steps to put it in the cooler, turned around, and they had closed ranks. He was so disgusted, he just packed up and left.
There are cocky, entitled a-holes in every population. Like the ones in this thread. They just get the most attention.
Why would anyone try to spell as many words wrong in a paragraph as possible. If we look at your personal description every word is spelled correctly which means you actually do know how to spell, and then you come on here and intentionally spell words wrong, your a fake!! Sorry this has nothing to do with this topic, I just can’t stand reading jimmyray’s posts, because I get dumber by doing so. Maybe you should think about taking up rapping as hobby and not fishing[;)]
[fishin]