While Iāve been looking forward to fishing Starvation for the first time from my tube next month for a while now, Iām even MORE excited to have a quality perchery to ice fish while we wait for Pineview and Rockport to come backā¦
W&B: Isnāt all this about āfisheries managementā? Which I, for one, am thrilled to let the DWR professionals handle. I really enjoy fishing for warm water species - be they walleye or perch and have had some really great trips to Starvation with the family in the last few years. Do you really need to label me ādumbā?
when I referred to ādumb walleye fishermenā what I meant was this: Utah waters are not well-suited to be walleye fisheries because they usually have large water fluctuations that donāt support forage fish when super predators are present; therefore, the walleye population tends to eat itself out of prey and the walleye stunt. I referred to walleye fishermen as being ādumbā because they tend (stereotype) to want more and more walleye fisheries despite this fact and some are even responsible for the illegal transport of these fish to new waters. These fisheries would be better off without walleye because other game fish would sustain a predator-prey relationship better and would not destroy the balanceā¦
One of the few things that would help prolong the boom cycles, is one thing that the RMA and many walleye anglers cannot abide. There should be VERY LIBERAL limits on walleyes. If someone wants to catch and keep walleyes, they should be able to keep 20 or more under 20 inches, and 4 over 20 inches (at Starvation, not Yubaā¦yet) with only one over say 26 inches. But the guys who want trophies wonāt stand still while that happens. The DWR has been trying for years to get the limit on lake trout at Flaming Gorge raised. The guides and trophy chasers were against it, but theyāve finally seen the light. Keep the pressure on the predators when they are over utilizing their prey base. Iāve heard that the limit on walleye state wide might go to something like 8 fish, with one over 24 inches. That would allow more pressure on the over 20 inchers that are now protected.
Until the balance is tipped more in favor of the kokanee and chubs at the Gorge, there should be almost no limit on lakers under 28 inches. They are too prevalent, and consume more than their share of the forage. The same could be said of small walleyes at Starvation. The DWR was trying to gill net the small walleyes because they couldnāt get support for increased limits on walleye. Iām not saying eliminate walleyes, just keep the pressure on them when they get too abundant.
Fishrmn
Boom and Bust cycles. Starvation is the definiton of this. currenlty, it is booming. it will be short-lived. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Fshrmn actually has a very good idea to lengthen the boom cycles of Walleye waters. Extremely liberal harvest limits would help ā but only if fishermen were willing to harvest those fish. Itās up to us.
Tuberduder ā Itās not an elitist, or troutist, attitude. Itās an attitude of species whose numbers can, and cannot be controlled. Controllable species make good fisheries. Uncontrollableās (walleye) make excellent boom and bust cycles. Like I said before, enjoy Starvation while it lasts.
I would vote for some trout water and some walleye water, Iāll fish the walleye water , that way the trout water wonāt be as crouded. we can argue all day about which is better and never convince some people to see our side I donāt know whoās being pigheaded in reality but iām sure glad the walleye are here to stay, there really is a god. trout are self sustaining as long as there is gas for the planting trucks, lets just pray there are allwayse some kind of fish to catch.
I donāt think I made any āelitistā accusations. My philosophy is always ādifferent strokes for different folksā. I do not think anybody is wrong, just because they do not share my opinionā¦just different.
I made the comment about Starvation formerly being only chubs and brownsā¦not to disagree with anything, but from personal frustrating experience. I quit fishing it then, as did a lot of others. My perception is that Starvation has had a lot more angler hours since the addition of other speciesā¦legal and otherwise. It will probably get even more pressure until the inevitable ādeclineā (bust) which is sure to happen.
My personal observation is that in a desert state like Utah we have to be properly grateful for whatever good fishing we have, at the time we have it, because there is no water or fishery that remains constant. That is true of trout waters and non-trout waters.
**I also chortle when bassaholics and walleye nuts start popping off about DWR not managing those fisheries. For the most part bass and walleye would both benefit from upward changes in the limits and increased harvestā¦not more restrictionsā¦especially on the smaller fish. As most of us have observed, the āteenagersā have the biggest appetites and are faster and more aggressive than larger fish. They eat a disproportionate amount of the available fodder. Thatās where the ācleanupā should occur, with some allowance for trophy fish being kept. I do believe that the restriction on fish over 12" (bass) is subject to modification. **
**I also believe that the 20" rule on walleyes is largely ineffectual. Not many people catch the bigger fish, but it is the bigger fish that clean out the larger prey speciesā¦perch, white bass, bluegills, crappies and even trout and bass. The little ones eat more small prey, but the big fish probably consume more in terms of total weight. And, the fewer big spawners in action, the fewer teenagers each year. **
No arguments from me, sir. Trying to manage the unmanageable is a difficult and thankless chore. DWR is at least making the effort. The single biggest problem, as I see it, is that by the time sufficient information comes in upon which to make a decision, the conditions have changed before new regulations can be effective.
A good case in point is the limit on perch on different waters. The 50 perch limit on Jordanelle no longer makes sense. On the other hand, there should be a higher limit on perch at Starvation. But, by the time that could be included in the proclamation, there could well be a crash.
Not complaining, mind you, just observing.
Tuber ā my āelitistā rebuttle should have been directed to flycaster. Apologies.
flycaster ā stereotyping is easy. You may call W&B an elitist because his opinion of walleye overpopulating nearly every lake they inhabit (in Utah) is fact, while he (or me) can call you ignorant for assuming the lake is doing well, when in fact it is in a vicious cycle that the UDWR will have a hard time correcting.
Again, enjoy it while it lasts. Like most boom and bust cycles, fishermen will typically remember the few good years, and forget about the many, many bad years. Do you all remember when Yuba was a world class Walleye fishery? How many years did that last? Compare that to how many years Yuba just plain sucked. Now, think about how fantastic Yuba has been for the last two years - without the Walleyeā¦ ā¦but that should change soon, as well.
PBH, I like you. You make more sense than about everyone else put together. Please keep the logic coming even though it is painful to most.
Wormandbobber, I fully agree with you.
Tube dude, I like you too. You are invaluable to this site.
Well the bucket guys did it againā¦
I didnāt call him an elitist because of his opinion on various watersā¦ If you read the post I even said he was correct a lot of the timeā¦ I called him an elitist because of the way that he responds to others posts. If someone elseās idea is not to his liking or he thinks they are wrongā¦ he calls them dumb or an idiot.
So he must ALWAYS be rightā¦ therefore āEliteā.
Wouldnāt it be nice to have lakes take turns with the boom and bust! When Starvation busts Yuba is up. When Yuba busts Pineview is up, when Pineview busts Rockport is on fire. Lets find someone to manage that!
In response to a previous post about Yuba being āfantasticā for the last two years, I think walleye fisherman might have a different opinion as to how āfantasticā it has been.
Slayer
Hey Bro, just consider the source.
You ready for some Yuba minnowinā? We need something else to yammer about again. Maybe we could even find a big trout or two.
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In response to a previous post about Yuba being āfantasticā for the last two years, I think walleye fisherman might have a different opinion as to how āfantasticā it has been.
Slayer[/reply]
Thatās exactly correct. Maybe Walleye fishermen have been disappointed with Yuba for the last two years (same with perch fishermen). However, look at overall fishing hours on that lake the last two years. Yuba has seen more angler hours simply due to the success of rainbows for the last two years. When the walleye take over, and rainbows disappear, angler hours will also decline. You wonāt get the typical recreational anglers making trips to Yuba any longer. Youāll only have a handfull of Walleye fishermen.
Iām OK with that. Itās not my preference, but Iām OK with giving the Walleye guys another Walleye lake. I do, however, think itās a shame that the state will be losing such a great trout fishery.
Iāve gotta back you up on that one, Bro. I am one of the āold timersā that have experienced the best and worst of Yuba over the years. I loved the good parts and cried when things went bad. As you point out, we all like to remember the times when big perch and walleye were easy pickins. But, unfortunately, the nature of the lake and the nature of the state is that fluctuating water levels and heavy predation from the walleyes always led to the bust cycles.
I personally have been loving and enjoying the great trout fishery in Yuba. Yeah, I get a tear in my eye as I recall some of the āgood old daysā, but only before I hook up with a cavorting six pound rainbow. That kinda takes the pain away.
I also agree with the angler days thing. It used to be rare to see more than a few boats trolling for walleye, even on weekends. Now, there are often quite a few trouters either trolling or banking and enjoying every minute of it. Lots of folks fishing Yuba now that never even considered it when it was a perch and walleye pond.
It seems that no matter what your personal preference in fishing, there will be ups and downs on your favorite waters. Too bad everybody has to start pointing fingers and dissing the oppositionā¦and DWR.
i strangley aggery with ya on this one as well to a point.. i have fished YUBA for years my self.. i do not rember it realy sucking tho. just some years i have to fish for catfish and pike while the perch and Walleyeās found there way backā¦
and the trout fishing there has been very good the last two years.. i to have made the trip over to check it out, and had a great time catching them.. and i have never seen the water so clear as it has been the last two years..
tho i think a lot of the problems YUBA had, had to do with the vast amount of carp the lake getās. and that in the long run is what will keep it from being a good trout fishery..
throw carp in the mix and it will change the lake a lot..
the sevier river has alot of places up stream from YUBA that have a lot of carp in them.. itās only a matter of time before the carp will start makeing the water dirty again.. then the trout fishing will slow down and the pike and walleye will be kingās of the lake once again..
and i would not be to surprised if the pike make a much better come back than the Walleye do without some help for the walleye..
as it stands now the pike have a big head start on the Walleye..
Hey Ron, have you heard of any cats coming out of Yuba since the āmakeoverā? I used to like those kitties too.
I always used to think of Starvation as āmineā, I hate to see it get this much attention.
Every lake in Utah has a bust cycle in some form or another. I donāt quite understand what all the fuss is about. There are plenty of trout in this state for the fly flingers but limited walleye waters. The ones that do have walleye have a dozen other species which all affect each other. Starvation would have survived even without the DWR. Everything takes timeā¦the perch, hmmmmm, I donāt know yet. All I can say is enjoy it while it lasts because when Yuba is taken over by walleye and pike starvation will be forgotten again.
you know dude i have not heard of any comeing out of YUBA as of late.. me and some friends use to go there a lot and do over nighters fishing for the big catās..
the last 2 years i have not even tryed to catch any from the lake..
but if you go below gunnison or some of the other roads that cross the river around sun down youāll find what your looking for there..
a lot of smalleyās with some big 10 + lbs mixed in.. a lot of times if you catch a big one pack up and move 100 yards or so down stream and start again.. or youāll have the little ones messing with ya to much..
i use a big 0/4 baitholder and a side of a 6" to 10" chub to get the big ones and helps to keep the little one from getting the hook or bait.. but they still try.. lol
How about a guided trip by āFuzzy Adventuresā sometime? I have no experience at all on the river above the lake.
I would expect that if a population of cats survived upstream (like the pike) that there are some in the lake too. Iām sure they will start showing up when we are able to fish for perch and the walleyes become more plentiful too.
I donāt know if it was just my imagination but the channels in Yuba seemed to fight harder than those from most other waters. The rainbows fight pretty good too.