Fins: Force vs. Mares Power Planas

Well, I tried 'em. You’ll notice the custom pad work there to reduce them from XXL to whatever fit me. No problems at all with pinching or squeezing.

I didn’t try them back to back with my Planas as I was too intent on catching fish, but they worked okay. Not Earth-shatteringly different from my other fins as far as I can tell. I don’t think that they’re worth the $140, but that’s the price you pay for non-outsourced hand-finished manufacturing in the US.

I’ll do the swimming pool drag races soon enough…

_SHig

Full review here:

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tube_Fishing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/gforum.cgi?post=445642;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

_SHig

Well you know me and my pictures. I had to go back and think about my fins, because several look familiar.
First off, I have a very cool pair still, that I have no picture of. They are the hard plastic flipper sole, with a total nylon upper. Not the best in choppy water, but great on small calm lakes or even a pool.
They fold flat so very easy to transport, in fact that is what they were designed for.

Secondly, I still have the regular molded plastic. Again same functions as the backpackables. Very easy to get on, but these are hard on shoes:

[inline first.jpg]

Then I bought these, They are the Browning. I no longer have these. The back strap was a pain to adjust, tight and hard on the boot, and tired me out. Plus the rear strap didn’t last very long:

[inline Browning.jpg]

Next I went with a pair called “TURTLES” Pretty much the same results as the Brownings:

[inline Turtle.jpg]

Which leaves me to where I am todayand have been for the past 5+ years:

[inline Force.jpg]

BUT, I am a on the thin side however 5’8" tall. I kick with my legs down like sitting in a chair and kicking a ball. I don’t need to move my feet much at all, but in real bad weather I am very mobile.
Let me say, ALL fins work on calm water[;)] the test is 3’ waves LOL

Well you know me and my pictures. I had to go back and think about my fins, because several look familiar.
First off, I have a very cool pair still, that I have no picture of. They are the hard plastic flipper sole, with a total nylon upper. Not the best in choppy water, but great on small calm lakes or even a pool.
They fold flat so very easy to transport, in fact that is what they were designed for.

Secondly, I still have the regular molded plastic. Again same functions as the backpackables. Very easy to get on, but these are hard on shoes:

Then I bought these, They are the Browning. I no longer have these. The back strap was a pain to adjust, tight and hard on the boot, and tired me out. Plus the rear strap didn’t last very long:

Next I went with a pair called “TURTLES” Pretty much the same results as the Brownings:

Which leaves me to where I am todayand have been for the past 5+ years:

BUT, I am a on the thin side however 5’8" tall. I kick with my legs down like sitting in a chair and kicking a ball. I don’t need to move my feet much at all, but in real bad weather I am very mobile.
Let me say, ALL fins work on calm water[;)] the test is 3’ waves LOL

I fin the same way as you for the record. Stroke is from legs slightly below me (knees bent past 90 degrees) to legs out (maybe slightly more than 45 degrees out). This is at full tilt boogie though. For cruising and positioning I probably propel more on ankle movement.

Not a problem for me, but those fins with the fixed rear loop and adjustable buckles and belts over the top are not a good deal for those with large feet. I floated with a buddy this weekend who used a pair of those (Size 14 wading boots!!) and there was hardly 4" of blade out from under his toes. I felt bad for the guy churning around.

The Brownings look very similar to the Planas, but mine are not vented. I’m not sure what the purpose of those are except maybe they make the fins big to look good, but vent them so they aren’t as resistant? Marketing? Big spoiler on a Honda Civic tactic… I agree the rubber strap does wear out, but you should only need to adjust them once. The foot pocket is well suited for a flexible shoe without big lace hooks and rings like the water shoes, but may be too confining for true wading boots.

I wonder if they tired you out because you were used to a certain cadence of finning, and this cadence actually was propelling you faster than you needed to go at the expense of extra energy? I think I discovered in my testing that barely a loping idle of a kick cadence with my big fins resulted in the same velocity as a relatively brisk pace using the Force fins.

If you could explain how a fin is better or worse in a chope though, I’d appreciate it. I can’t see how it’d make a differnce…

Do you feel with your Browning fins that if you had to fight a breeze back home you’d either be slower or not make it (due to power or loss of energy or cramping) vs the Force? Seems like the using Force Fins is akin to riding a road bike with hill gearing selected. Not fast on the flats, but if you hit a hill, you’re prepared to chug on up. The “big fins” are akin to the same bike on cruise gear. Slower to accelerate, but you can maintain higher speed with similar effort. Problem may be that depending on the size of the hill (= wind) you may or may not be able to get up.

Current, on the other hand, is a different story. I think that the big fins win in current as your water speed needs to be as faster in the current. If you can’t get enough water speed with your fins because of size and cadence limitations, you’re effed!

I really would like to do more testing as I’m having fun, but when I’m on the water I just want to fish too much! :slight_smile:

I’ll keep y’all posted.

_SHig

I think it is just “Different Strokes (no pun intended) For Different Folks”
I don’t think of the Turtles or the Browning as being BIGGER than the Force fins, cause they aren’t on my.
“I” found I move, as you put it, faster with the FF, but with little effort.
The thing is, “I” tried all of the above and my conclusion is, the FF work better “For Me”
Again, it is a Knife or a Spoon, it is “EASIER” for me to SCOOP the water for faster, stronger propulsion.
Also, around here, I am not the only one that feels that way, but the PRICE is up there, so allot don’t GET to try them.
The other forum I frequent, could change it’s name to the Force Finners LOL

here are a couple of my observations in my limited experience in tubing.. I have a pair of force fins that I got on sale at basspro.. they look like this..

[inline “force fins.jpg”]

[left]…these fins work fine for me for now…they are a tad bit bulky and obviously you cant walk forward in them.. they are easy to use and I dont wear out trying to get from point a to b etc… I use the reverse bicyle kick as described by FG.. but have found myself on occassion doing a regular kick (up and down in front of me) and although that kick works as a change of pace I find it easier to do the reverse bike thing.. are these the optimum fins for me.. no.. but for now they work well for what I want..
[left]
[left]I have seen one of our members absolutely tear up the water and never make a sound and he uses force fins.. Ive also seen him purposely churn up the water to scare up some fish and be very successful. .. and Im telling ya’ll.. this guy can be at one point in a lake and minutes later be 50 yards from that point or more.. like a ghost.. he loves his force fins for sure..
[left]
[left].. Id have to honestly say that when I decide to upgrade Ill be seriously looking at force fins because I have seen how well they work.. and from what I have read (on line and here) they are designed specifically for float tubing.. (at least the ones FG wears are).. plus they give me the option to finally start using my wading boots that are still new in the box at home !! :slight_smile:
[left]
[left]…again .. just my .02…
[left]
[left]MacFly :sunglasses:

Totally respect that. This information is why I’m so damned disappointed in them for ME. I was hoping for the second coming of float fishing - life changing, clouds part, hallelujah moment, but no…

Could you do me a favor and measure the fin from back to middle of the V and from back to Tips?

Also from back to where the toe exit hoop joins the blade?

It looks like the tubing units may be a bit longer than the “Originals”.

_SHig

here are a couple of my observations in my limited experience in tubing.. I have a pair of force fins that I got on sale at basspro.. they look like this..

[left]…these fins work fine for me for now…they are a tad bit bulky and obviously you cant walk forward in them.. they are easy to use and I dont wear out trying to get from point a to b etc… I use the reverse bicyle kick as described by FG.. but have found myself on occassion doing a regular kick (up and down in front of me) and although that kick works as a change of pace I find it easier to do the reverse bike thing.. are these the optimum fins for me.. no.. but for now they work well for what I want..
[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left]I have seen one of our members absolutely tear up the water and never make a sound and he uses force fins.. Ive also seen him purposely churn up the water to scare up some fish and be very successful. .. and Im telling ya’ll.. this guy can be at one point in a lake and minutes later be 50 yards from that point or more.. like a ghost.. he loves his force fins for sure..
[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left].. Id have to honestly say that when I decide to upgrade Ill be seriously looking at force fins because I have seen how well they work.. and from what I have read (on line and here) they are designed specifically for float tubing.. (at least the ones FG wears are).. plus they give me the option to finally start using my wading boots that are still new in the box at home !! :slight_smile:
[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left]…again .. just my .02…
[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left]MacFly :sunglasses:[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left]I’ll have to try using the bicycle kick method. Also, in the 'toon I was too high out of the water to try this so I’ll do it in the tube next time as promised.[/left]
[left]
[/left]
[left]I wanna race! Anyone?

_SHig
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from what you said before it sounds like you are already doing it.. its the same kick that FG described earlier.. :slight_smile:

MacFly :sunglasses:

from what you said before it sounds like you are already doing it.. its the same kick that FG described earlier.. :slight_smile:

MacFly :sunglasses:

Okay, I figured the reverse bike would entail actually pumping the knees up and down in addition to kicking forward and back…

I guess the distinction would be kicking with the legs out a-la Aquaman. That would WRECK my knees if I tried that one…

_SHig

I can answer why the vent in the fins. It is to help people not get as tired kicking. People’s legs kick up much better and stronger then down. The holes allow less resistance on the down stroke from your tube or toon. I have a pair like macfly55 posted.

Just got a pair of the mares last week and can’t wait to see if there is much of a difference.

thank you tlspyder.. that makes a lot of sense to me.. :slight_smile: I knew there had to be a reason for it other than decoration.. :slight_smile:

MacFly :sunglasses:

Myself, there is some up and down of the whole leg, it is as I said. Sitting in a chair (a tall chair so you feet don’t actually touch the ground).and kicking a soccer ball. Yes, you raise the upper portion of you leg to some degree, it is natural. Or riding a bike backwards, but the chair gives that PUSH or THRUST that is involved with finning.
The aqua man could be easier, but again, in bad water you need all the THRUST you can get.

But don’t they vent in both directions? :astonished:

You know what though? I’ll bet it has to do with water velocity and flow. Similar to how air blow guns have holes on the sides of the nozzles so that the air out the end actually comes out FASTER than without. Venturi/Bernoulli or something like that…

Also, the vents are generally at the root of the blade which doesn’t do much work anyway…

Still looking for a good article on the hydrodynamic design principles of fins.

_SHig

Great discussion gang !! Between my back and knees, I have long since given up the tube and occasionally use a toon. I was wondering if anyone else out there is using fins as an alternate form of propulsion in the toon, especially for positioning. I have been using my oars for getting there fast and then my fins for positioning. Like TD, I have used most of whats out there and like the fins best. I have some IDI Frogfoots that I still use. They are BIG and unvented, really give you a workout, but in my younger days, they were great. Just my thoughts !!! The only good thing about the Force fins was that you could walk in them, but they never supplied the thrust that the bigger fins did. I would like to try some of the Mares though, they might be easier to kick with.

Great discussion gang !! Between my back and knees, I have long since given up the tube and occasionally use a toon. I was wondering if anyone else out there is using fins as an alternate form of propulsion in the toon, especially for positioning. I have been using my oars for getting there fast and then my fins for positioning. Like TD, I have used most of whats out there and like the fins best. I have some IDI Frogfoots that I still use. They are BIG and unvented, really give you a workout, but in my younger days, they were great. Just my thoughts !!! The only good thing about the Force fins was that you could walk in them, but they never supplied the thrust that the bigger fins did. I would like to try some of the Mares though, they might be easier to kick with.

I’d bet the Frogfoots (frogfeet? I couldn’t find a pic online…) are probably comparable to the big unvented Mares.

I too use the oars to move while not fishing from point A to point B, but then go to fin-power to cruise or maintain and fish.

To tell you the truth since I use the oars for the “macro” movement the fins really don’t need to be that fast, but it’s nice to have that capability (for the 'toon). The Force could/should have been the right compromise for the 'toon, however I can’t seem to rotate in place as easily with them as with the “normal” fins. Also, you can buy a lot of slow fins for the price of the Jedi units.

OTOH, in the tube, since they’re my main motor AND retros, they’ve gotta do it all. For now the Mares are it.

Still more research to come though…

_SHig

. I was wondering if anyone else out there is using fins as an alternate form of propulsion in the toon, especially for positioning.

I guess I really don’t NEED to answer this as the picture IS from a pontoon and that is pretty much all I use. I do have an H3, but I am always in either the Navigator II or my Cardiac Canyon.
As far as a source of propulsion, my answer is You bet. If I have a fish on in bad water, I am using my fins a great deal to keep up with the fish.
Majja can also testify how quickly I can move with just the force fins in my pontoon. He thought I had my motor on.
If you are local, I will be at Strawberry Sunday.

Comparison pics between my fins and FGs posted here:

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tube_Fishing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/gforum.cgi?post=445799;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

Summary? FG’s are about a 1/2" on either side wider than mine at the ends, but otherwise pretty much the same. Doubtful if the effective area is much more than a few square inched different.

_SHig

Don’t forget the SPOON shape there, plus your findings may and WILL differ with other people.
There are other factors, such as the fact you have elevated your seat, the way you (anyone) kicks, etc.
You yourself said you had a hard time rowing at first.
That is what makes the world go round. What works for you doesn’t work for me and so on.
You started this post asking, but it turns out you have the answer.[;)]

I don’t think that’s the way I’m trying to paint this at all! I more than anyone want to prove these things out. I WANT these to be the way to go, and I’m trying to be totally fair and understand why these keep getting such universal (well, mostly) praise.

Mine have the same v-angle spoon as yours. Guess I missed that comparo-pic.

True, I have the elevated seat on my 'toon, but I tested these back to back to back to back in my tube. That’s not it.

I thought they were adequate in the 'toon, only when compared in quick succession in the pool did I notice the differences.

I’m all about the scientific method. I’ve already conceded that I need more laps on these fins to get the full “feel” for them. Yeah, I was a rowing newbie. I learned that putting the oars too far apart make consistent rowing impossible. I want to learn how to make these fins walk and talk. Just not there yet.

I’m going to try fins EXACTLY like yours, like I posted up, so even the differences there will no longer play a part in this experiment. I truly want these to be the best out there, but if they aren’t for me, my goal is to SHOW (not tell) people why they may not have worked for me so everyone will have my experience to learn from and help them make an informed decision on fins.

I’m still working out in my mind the balance between power and control and how that affects your choice of propulsion. On a 'toon where you have oars, the less powerful fins with good directional control SHOULD be the choice right? For slow cruising and position control the small fins work fine. For the hauls, you row.

For a tube, your fins are EVERYTHING. So you have to wear what you can power home in. No use having fine control if you can’t power through the gales. OTOH, why froth the water if you can easy pace on through with some bigger paddles. Perhaps a change of style (goes both ways here! [;)] ) is in order rather than equipment? I’m still wondering if the urge to overpower the gear causes the fatigue and cramping for some with the big boards?

Anyway, I LOVE the discussion - even though the guys at work think I’m crazy (after telling them of my swimming pool adventures…).

It’s all good, it’s only 'cuz I love!

_SHig