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I was at the www.wayneswords.com website.
I read some pretty good news about Gizzard Shad at Lake Powell, which I have never fished there but this came to mind.
In this article it really states that there is no concern for Gizzards being in the lake. Strange though I thought that it might ruin the fishery.
Actually Gizzard Shad grow to much larger sizes than Threadfins and will not be eaten buy adult game fish. Thats if they make it to adult size. That is good news because as the article says Threadfin Shad get eaten when they reach adult size. In other words Threadfin Shad are subject to being eaten their whole life. While Gizzard Shad can grow to a large size and they are very prolific. When Gizzards get big they don't get eaten.
I wonder if Gizzard Shad will "save" Lake Powell.
So I read this:
"[font "Verdana"][size 3]We are just beginning to understand how the recently arrived gizzard shad will fit into the forage picture at Lake Powell. Gizzard shad have the potential to fit well with the existing threadfin shad population."
[black][size 2]Seems with the Stripers potentially eating their way out of house and home the Gizzards could help a great deal with a forage fish. But only in the future I imagine when the Gizzard Shad move further into the lake.
Read this article if your interested.[/size][/black][/size][/font][size 3][font "Verdana"]
[/font][/size] http://www.wayneswords.com/gshad.htm
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thats great news. to bad the utah DWR have not pulled there heads out before this and been planting the lake with them.. [unsure]
if they ever figur out how to manage a warm water fishery. the state of Utah could have a world class walleye fishery (Yuba) and a wourld class striper fishery (powell).. BUT THEY HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO TO GET THERE!
i dont think they will ever pull there heads out tho.[crazy]
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[cool][#0000ff]That's not fair, Ron. Utah DWR is very progressive...for the 1800's. And you really have to admire the way that they carefully study things...forever...before deciding not to do anything.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As we have seen with Yuba and other waters, they would rather make NO DECISION AT ALL, rather than risking making a decision that would someday make somebody look bad. Politics ahead of progress. And, in the meantime, the normal boom and bust cycles are in full swing...in spite of everything DWR does NOT do.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Do we make a good team, or what?[/#0000ff]
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I couldn't agree more that the UDWR is painfully slow to act (and that politics is involved in far more decisions than sound biology); however, I also believe that under today's political environment that it would have been impossible to get permits from the feds to ever plant gizzard shad in Lake Powell or likely any other water in Utah. The feds have still yet to approve the planting of small mouth bass in Lake Powell! Perhaps we should give the UDWR some credit for pulling off the almost impossible by getting approval to plant them in Willard. I have been told by a UDWR employee, who would know, that they tried repeatedly to get permission to plant gizzard shad in Yuba and the feds would never approve it. The reason given was if gizzard shad were planted in Yuba then they would be on both sides of Utah Lake, which would only increase the chances that a bucket biologist would plant them in Utah Lake and further threaten the June Suckers.
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[cool][#0000ff]It always seems to come back to the June suckers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I wonder if the Fed folks have to train in Utah before they can get their positions on a federal level. Whatever, it is clear that their decision-making process is not based upon providing a better fishing opportunity for Utah anglers.[/#0000ff]
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It has been proven that you need five feeder fish for each predator (game fish) to get and maintain a good fishery, and I have said they (the DWR) needs to plant june suckers in all or most waters of Utah then it will do two things....
1. It will get the june sucker off that list...
2. It will feed all the other fish we like to catch....
That will let them manage the lakes better all around...
The shad will not hurt any lake as long as you have all the other fish to eat them like bass LM and SM stripers and waleyes and even the bigger trout like the Berry....
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How in the heck are they going to get June Suckers back into Utah Lake?
I'm sort of chuckling right now. Don't get me wrong, but is it a really a "heroic" idea to get the June Sucker back into Utah Lake?
Carp, carp, carp , carp, and more carp.
Channel catfish love suckers, walleyes love 'em too! Oh brother!
White bass eat them too I heard. So what can you do?
Too me its like the Grand Canyon where they are trying to "reestablish" Humpback Chubs. They got some there but too bad 'ol Lake Powell cools things down a bit; makes the water too cold.
Utah Lake? Why not just put a bounty on the carp? 5 cents a fish ha ha! You could quit your day job for that.
Other than that I have nothing to say, desperate?
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I for one wish the Utah DWR was still studying whether to even plant Stripers into Lake Powell. Yeah Stripers are big, easy to catch, (OK but not not superior table fare however), but just look what they have done to all the waters they have been planted in. Wayne Kirch of the Nevada Wildlife Commission was one who was responsible in getting them to plant Stripers in Lake Mead in the late 60's or early 70's. He said they would be perfect since they could not reproduce like they have in California waters and not significantly impact other species. As we have found out they reproduce like rabbits. Well, they stripped the lake of trout making the brand new multi-million dollar federal fish hatchery on the lake just a Striper food factory. The same thing can be said of the blue ribbon trout fishery and Willow Beach fish hatchery below Lake Mead. Now, just about everything in Lake Powell downstream to the Colorado River below Lake Havasu in California is Striper heaven.
All these waters have seen monumental decreases in the other species due to the introduction of Stripers. They wreck carnage on the food base and other fish. Either by getting eaten by them or by not being able to compete with what is a salt water fish. Gosh, who whould have thought that a large ocean fish could not peacefully co-exist with much smaller freshwater fish. Duhhhh! I wish for the days when I could go to Lake Powell and not know what I would catch next. We would go down and harvest 6-8 species in a trip. Now we catch Stripers and tiny smallmouth with the occasional largemouth or walleye. Striper lovers, enjoy the lake that for the rest of us is now a shadow of it's former self. Sorry if I offended anyone, but If I wanted to catch an ocean fish I would go to the ocean. Mr. J.
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[cool][#0000ff]Don't know how long you have been hanging around this board, but we have had some dandy discussions of the "Walleye feeding program" (June sucker plantings). [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You have the gist of our rantings pretty well pegged. As long as there are carp, walleye, white bass, catfish and other predators and environment defilers in Utah Lake, the June sucker will NEVER make a serious comeback. But, the feds and DWR have a simple solution...kill off all the other species. Yeah right. Simple. Snap your fingers, click your waders together, close your eyes and chant "There's no fish like June suckers".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The accepted definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and to expect different results. HELLO feds...putting small suckers back into a hostile environment is only contributing to the food chain...not building the sucker population. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]According to studies of the conditions of old, under which June suckers thrived and prospered, they had only a few cutthroat trout to dodge and plenty of clean water and aquatic vegetation for the young to hide in until they got big enough to survive. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now the carp destroy the vegetation and stir up choking silt. The predators easily find and consume the sucker fry long before they can reach spawning sizes. From the studies I have reviewed, sample nettings from around the lake have not produced evidence of any survival of the artificially propagated fry released each year. But, anglers find lots of them in the guts of walleyes and catfish about the time they are being planted.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Kinda reminds me of the story about the two old boys that went into the watermelon business. They would buy watermelons directly out of the field for $1 each, drive their truck into town and sell them for 50 cents each. When they realized they were losing money, the only solution they could come up with was "We need a bigger truck".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I don't think any of us truly wants to see the complete demise of the June sucker...or any other species. But, dagnabbit, sometimes you gotta face reality. No matter how much money you throw into studies, artificial spawning and replantings, June suckers are no longer viable in Utah Lake. There are probably lots of other waters where they would survive a whole lot better. Just in case nobody noticed...Utah Lake is different now.[/#0000ff]
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The real problem at powell will be the zebra and quaga mussels that will eat the plankton needed by the shad that are needed by the fish we like to catch. I'll put up $5 for anyone who can figure out a way to get rid of invasive mussels without damaging the fish.
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Back to the shad, they will help increase the size of stripers as well, (bigger food for bigger fish) and make it more likely that the average angler might brake the ten pound mark. I can hardly wait to see what the future holds for Powell.
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I don't know how long all of you guys have been around, or how long your memories are, but the Utah DWR tried for several years to get another forage species planted in Lake Powell. They looked at several different species, and decided that the rainbow smelt would be the most beneficial, while posing the least threat to endangered or threatened species in the Colorado River drainage. You're wrong to flame them for the problem. They tried. They have to follow the law. They spent the time, effort, and money to try to get the smelt planted, but their hands are tied. The USFWS are the ones who put the screws to that idea. The wonderful irony is that they are the ones who get the credit of accidentally letting gizzard shad get out of their hatchery, and in to Powell.
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[cool][#0000ff]Good observation. On the east coast the menhaden is a prime forage fish for stripers. It gets over 16 inches long, just like big gizzard shad, and the locals use the big ones for catching big stripers. No problem with a striper over about 15 pounds just slurping one down.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Many long years ago I saw a 40 pound striper some guy had caught out of Hite. When he opened it up, it had about a 3 pound carp in it. I suspect that there are a few big stripers in the lake but they eat bigger food than most fishermen are offering. A bitty bite of 'chovy just doesn't compare with something else that weighs a pound or more.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Bring on the big gizzards and break out the big lures.[/#0000ff]
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Have you heard anything about the suckers in the pond by my home? I am wondering how they are doing there and if they are feeding the toothy critters that are supposedly in there.[crazy]
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are them june suckers in ec or just the regulars had one swimming around the camera the other day.
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[cool][#0000ff]I have heard that they were planted in your local pond, but have heard nothing about their survival or spawning. They have been planted in several other waters as an experiment. So far there have been no encouraging results. They are usually planted as adults, to escape most of the predators.[/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff]Most likely just a Utah sucker. Have not heard of them planting the Junies in there. But, who knows?[/#0000ff]
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Well kind of like brother Darwin said "evolution" and the June sucker seemed to miss that class. It is not evolving to its new living quarters so I think it is time to quit throwing good money after bad and say we tried. Pop them in some aquarium or Special holding pond where they can be papered and fed and the entire world can see the last surviving June sucker and than do what is best for the sport fishing folk.
Majja
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Well despite the difference of opinion in regards to stripers being in Lake Powell, there no place I would rather fish at this time. You can go down any time and know that you can catch stripers. But there have been days when I have caught seven or eight different species. Some of the fish weren't world class but there were some pretty hefty cats and smallmouth that I have pulled out of the lake. Who knows, there might even be records tiger muskies and pike still hiding somewhere in the lake. And the gizzard shad are going to do nothing but improve the fishery. But as has been pointed out, it will be interesting to see how the quaga and zebra mussells affect the fishery, but that won't be for several years, until then I am just going to enjoy one of the greatest fisheries in the nation.
As for the June Sucker, it really sucks that the feds are spending billions on protecting a susceptible pray fish instead of managing the fishery where anglers would bring the millions and millions of dollars and pump it back into the local economy. But what to do?
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