04-09-2010, 05:25 PM
My pontoon(s) are the Classic Accessories Arrow Backpacker model. This is made by the same people that make the other boat sold under the classic accessories name as well as trout unlimited and a number of others. Costco and Wallmart both sell product from this manufacturer.
The little story I can add to what TD has said for what I went through here is that the first pontoon frame didn't fail on me out in the water. I was up at Strawberry last fall during the deer hunt with my family. I was one day in camp that I was chatting with my father and we were looking at the frame that he started to point out the low quality welds that he called "cold welds", meaning the weld did not penetrate both pieces of pipe the weld was to hold together effectively. In fact we could get my finger nail under the edge of one side of the weld on the same 2 joints that very dramatically failed on me yesterday with TD up at willard. One thing my father kept pointing out is a bad cold weld will also let in moisture inside the weld for areas it is not properly done and then you have a rust issue from the inside of the welds which you can't inspect well as you care for your craft. My father is a mechanical engineer as well as a trained welder so I use and lean on his understanding for such things a lot.
So when I went to Classic Accessories on the first frame issue that we caught before a disaster out on the water I had to play a lot of phone tag and push a lot for an answer but after a week of working with them I was told I was getting a replacement frame and that they felt that what I had was just a frame from a bad batch and they were very nice about it. Then I found it funny and a nice perk when the new frame showed up as a full new boat in box. So first thing I did was to pull the frame out and inspect it. The manufacturing of this new boat defiantly looked better to "my eye" so I showed my father this one and he said well it looks better but look they ground the welds down to look nice when painted so that makes it harder to see if the welds were good welds or bad welds doctored up. That said though he did say that he thought what he could see did look better. So now I'm at the end of the fishing season for me last year and I don't get to go out until this spring and as TD pointed out after just a couple trips this NEW frame dramatically failed on me yesterday.
Last night I had my father look at the failed frame and on both joints that failed he can see evidence that both were partially "cold welds" again. Areas where the weld pulled off one section of tube and the exposed section of tube shows no indication it was "attached via weld" to anything.
I have contacted Classic Accessories again and sent them pictures and description of what happened. I have pointed out that my personal weight and gear weight are well under the documented limits of this craft. I received a reply from them farily fast that said they would look into the issue and get back with me. This is similar to the last time so I'll give them a day or two and them check back with them. So the jury is still out on how they handle this event and what they propose to insure it doesn't happen again.
Last thing I'll point out is the tube diameter of my model as compared to the others this brand name carries. I believe only the Cimarron and the Arrow Backpacker use this diameter of tubing. There is a chance that the Kenai and Deleware models also share this tube diameter but I'm unsure. The others like the Colorado and Rogue models which are the two models I've most seen sold by wallmart and costco use larger diameter tubing and that is part of what makes those other models heavier. So you will have more surface area for the welds in those joints and that "should" give a stronger joint. I know that a few other BFT folks on here have used for many trips and over a year some of those models without having joints fail like I have now had twice. So that leaves me wondering more about this specific model in how it is either designed or fabricated in a way that makes it prone to failure.
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The little story I can add to what TD has said for what I went through here is that the first pontoon frame didn't fail on me out in the water. I was up at Strawberry last fall during the deer hunt with my family. I was one day in camp that I was chatting with my father and we were looking at the frame that he started to point out the low quality welds that he called "cold welds", meaning the weld did not penetrate both pieces of pipe the weld was to hold together effectively. In fact we could get my finger nail under the edge of one side of the weld on the same 2 joints that very dramatically failed on me yesterday with TD up at willard. One thing my father kept pointing out is a bad cold weld will also let in moisture inside the weld for areas it is not properly done and then you have a rust issue from the inside of the welds which you can't inspect well as you care for your craft. My father is a mechanical engineer as well as a trained welder so I use and lean on his understanding for such things a lot.
So when I went to Classic Accessories on the first frame issue that we caught before a disaster out on the water I had to play a lot of phone tag and push a lot for an answer but after a week of working with them I was told I was getting a replacement frame and that they felt that what I had was just a frame from a bad batch and they were very nice about it. Then I found it funny and a nice perk when the new frame showed up as a full new boat in box. So first thing I did was to pull the frame out and inspect it. The manufacturing of this new boat defiantly looked better to "my eye" so I showed my father this one and he said well it looks better but look they ground the welds down to look nice when painted so that makes it harder to see if the welds were good welds or bad welds doctored up. That said though he did say that he thought what he could see did look better. So now I'm at the end of the fishing season for me last year and I don't get to go out until this spring and as TD pointed out after just a couple trips this NEW frame dramatically failed on me yesterday.
Last night I had my father look at the failed frame and on both joints that failed he can see evidence that both were partially "cold welds" again. Areas where the weld pulled off one section of tube and the exposed section of tube shows no indication it was "attached via weld" to anything.
I have contacted Classic Accessories again and sent them pictures and description of what happened. I have pointed out that my personal weight and gear weight are well under the documented limits of this craft. I received a reply from them farily fast that said they would look into the issue and get back with me. This is similar to the last time so I'll give them a day or two and them check back with them. So the jury is still out on how they handle this event and what they propose to insure it doesn't happen again.
Last thing I'll point out is the tube diameter of my model as compared to the others this brand name carries. I believe only the Cimarron and the Arrow Backpacker use this diameter of tubing. There is a chance that the Kenai and Deleware models also share this tube diameter but I'm unsure. The others like the Colorado and Rogue models which are the two models I've most seen sold by wallmart and costco use larger diameter tubing and that is part of what makes those other models heavier. So you will have more surface area for the welds in those joints and that "should" give a stronger joint. I know that a few other BFT folks on here have used for many trips and over a year some of those models without having joints fail like I have now had twice. So that leaves me wondering more about this specific model in how it is either designed or fabricated in a way that makes it prone to failure.
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