06-18-2008, 11:38 PM
I would love to cite everything perfectly as it formaly should be but then people will think even more that I am just some "know it all." (Since I am only paraphrasing and not copying any direct words or infor from thier books or sites it is perfectly legitimate not to necessarily include a source for every single sentence I wright. If it is requested, I will look up page # in the books and make them available on the post for those interested. You can see that HookJaw_Brimhall already took offense at the way I write my responses. So I do not want to pretend that I am a scientist. In all honesty, I only wish I were. I have great respect for all science fields and consider all scientists and different types of biologists, including you to be knowledgeable professionals who provide a great service.
Here is a short list of some of the different types of specialists and scientists in the Bigfoot Field Researcher's organization. I understand perfectly well that the field of biology is very diverse. Dr. Jeff Meldrum specializes in primate anatomy and locomotion. Same with the late Dr. Grover Krantz. Here are some examples:
1. Walter Hartwig, Ph.D.
2. David Begun-Department of Anthropology, Univ. of Toronto
3. Vaugn M. Bryant-Director Palynology Laboratory, Department of Anthropology, Texas A&M University.
4. Dr. George W. Gill-Distinguished emeritus profess. and former chair of Anthropology, University of Wyoming.
4. William Potter, Ph.D.-College of Santa Fe
5. Renowned Naturalist George Shaller
6. Esteban Sarmiento-Primatologist and research associate at American Museum of Natural History
7. Daris Swindler-Professor Emeritus of Anatomy
8. Jimmy Chilcutt-Fingerprint Expert Texas A&M University (Conroe Texas Police Department)
9. Dr. Leroy Fish-Wildlife Ecologist Doctorate in Zoology
10. Richard Noll-Tooling Metrologist Washington
11. Derek Randles-Landscape Architect.
12. Dr. Henner Fahrenbach-Biochemical Research Scientist, Beaverton Oregon.
This is only a brief list. I am not demeaning your experience. I value it greatly. What I meant by the combined experience is just that. Just consider these 12 scientists. If each spent 30 days in the field or laboratory in the span of say 15 years, with say 8 hours a day, that is 30*8*15=3600 more man hours than any single person. This is what I mean. And there are many more scientitsts and members of the organization, I think they number around 3000.
Some collegues (same university ISU) of Jeff Meldrum and others have criticized him and his work. However, none of them, not a single one, has disproven anything he has shown or researched.[#000000] I challenge anone to find any quotes, info, or source disproving Jeff Meldrum's work. [/#000000]
[#000000][size 2]From My Post:[/size][/#000000]
[size 2][#000000]You wrote: "Gorrilas, in thier environment detect dogs hundreds of feet away... but an intelligent abe who can connecat a dog to a person is obviously better at hiding from one."
[/#000000][/size]
From Dr. Krantz's and Meldrum's work, what I want to say here is that if a Bigfoot were trailed by a dog, and having a stride of almost 6 feet, would easily jump over obstacles and bush and logs. How is a dog going to do that when running at full speed, unless the dog has sighted the Bigfoot? Yes, the scent could be very strong but is most often not. Also, to further why using tracking dogs is unreliable, sightings and footprints are very rare. If a dog were dispatched even immidiately the Bigfoot would probably be thousands of feet away. I don't think any dog would be able to run over 35 mph in dense wood and brush.
Fishhound wrote:
[#008000]Is this a verified documented fact (if so, please supply a valid reference) or, is this second hand speculation (if so, do not claim it to be a fact) ?[/#008000]
[#000000]Now, we would not be having this discussion if this is verified officially 100%. It was reported by a winess who saw a Bigfoot along a road. It has also been reported on two other seperate occassions in Northern Idaho, where a woman and man were chased by a Bigfoot while driving thier car on a mountain raod. These reports are on the Bigfoot Field Researcher's Organization (BFRO).[/#000000]
Fishhound wrote:
[#008000]I don't know where you obtained your information about dogs, but, here is the real scoop; Grey hounds can run 45 mph, wolves run about 35-40 on a short sprint. Regardless of the sprinting, wolves and hounds can cover 20-30 miles without resting. Bipedal primates (except highly trained marathon runners) are known to be physically unable to do that.[/#008000] [#008000]Since canines can run at the speeds you suggest for Bigfoot and can cover more ground faster than any known bipedal primate species, why are you asserting that the use of tracking dogs would be unreliable ?[/#008000]
I said in my statement that only hounds can run over 35 mph, not that no dog can. Same thing with wolves. Go back and you will see it there in my statement:
"dog breed except the race hounds will reach above 35 mph, especially in thick brush ."
These hounds you and I talke about cannot do this in brush and wooded areas. There is a special breed in Africa which regularly chases rabbits on hard rock and in heat, but that is much different than places where Bigfoots are sighted. How many of those hounds are trained to look for primates anyway? You know very well that dogs can overheat very easily. A Bigfoot could probably run much farther without overheaing.
It has been estimated by again Mr. Krantz and Meldrum (as well as other scientists) that a Bigfoot would have no problem sustaining top speed for prolonged periods of time. There have been reports out of Washington where Bigfoots have been seen running up slopes at spectacular speeds for a long time, easily 30 minutes or more. There is probably also no other fully bipedal primate (except humans and Sasquatch). Gorillas, chimps, gibbons, and orangutans are not fully bipedal. Humans easily outrun them. Bigfoots are like humans, they are fully bipedal.
I never said that no dog would attack or that a dog would be always killed by a Bigfoot. Chances are though, greatly, that the dog would be killed.
I think you probably know that from research such as Jane Gooda's it is almost clear that Gorillas emit some kind of sound which humans cannot hear, but causes discomfort and sense of fright on part of humans. They also emit a strong stench from under thier armpits which repels predators. They probably need that there in the deep jungles, to protect them for jaguars and panthers. A dog would also shy away at the same sines, most of the time.
I read through the quotations you included. They are perfectly good arguments though they accomplish nothing to disprove Krantz or Meldrum's work. I have also read the book titled: Bigfoot Exposed, by Mr. Daegling. Nowhere in his text does he come close to disproving any footprints, the Bossburg Casts, or the 1967 Patterson-Gimlin Film. He is referred to often because he has been the only scientists to openly and publically get involved in trying to disprove the Skookum Cast, or other Bigfoot evidence described by the 12 scientists I mentiond and Krantz, Meldrum.
--One more thing I forgot to mention. To show that not everyone at Idah State University is against Dr. Meldrum I will type this. Dr. Andrew Nelson is a biomechanics expert and has commented on numerous occasions on how unlikely it was that a hoaxes possed the necessary knowledge to fake the Patterson Bigfoot. This can be found on pages 175-177 of Meldrum's book.
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Here is a short list of some of the different types of specialists and scientists in the Bigfoot Field Researcher's organization. I understand perfectly well that the field of biology is very diverse. Dr. Jeff Meldrum specializes in primate anatomy and locomotion. Same with the late Dr. Grover Krantz. Here are some examples:
1. Walter Hartwig, Ph.D.
2. David Begun-Department of Anthropology, Univ. of Toronto
3. Vaugn M. Bryant-Director Palynology Laboratory, Department of Anthropology, Texas A&M University.
4. Dr. George W. Gill-Distinguished emeritus profess. and former chair of Anthropology, University of Wyoming.
4. William Potter, Ph.D.-College of Santa Fe
5. Renowned Naturalist George Shaller
6. Esteban Sarmiento-Primatologist and research associate at American Museum of Natural History
7. Daris Swindler-Professor Emeritus of Anatomy
8. Jimmy Chilcutt-Fingerprint Expert Texas A&M University (Conroe Texas Police Department)
9. Dr. Leroy Fish-Wildlife Ecologist Doctorate in Zoology
10. Richard Noll-Tooling Metrologist Washington
11. Derek Randles-Landscape Architect.
12. Dr. Henner Fahrenbach-Biochemical Research Scientist, Beaverton Oregon.
This is only a brief list. I am not demeaning your experience. I value it greatly. What I meant by the combined experience is just that. Just consider these 12 scientists. If each spent 30 days in the field or laboratory in the span of say 15 years, with say 8 hours a day, that is 30*8*15=3600 more man hours than any single person. This is what I mean. And there are many more scientitsts and members of the organization, I think they number around 3000.
Some collegues (same university ISU) of Jeff Meldrum and others have criticized him and his work. However, none of them, not a single one, has disproven anything he has shown or researched.[#000000] I challenge anone to find any quotes, info, or source disproving Jeff Meldrum's work. [/#000000]
[#000000][size 2]From My Post:[/size][/#000000]
[size 2][#000000]You wrote: "Gorrilas, in thier environment detect dogs hundreds of feet away... but an intelligent abe who can connecat a dog to a person is obviously better at hiding from one."
[/#000000][/size]
From Dr. Krantz's and Meldrum's work, what I want to say here is that if a Bigfoot were trailed by a dog, and having a stride of almost 6 feet, would easily jump over obstacles and bush and logs. How is a dog going to do that when running at full speed, unless the dog has sighted the Bigfoot? Yes, the scent could be very strong but is most often not. Also, to further why using tracking dogs is unreliable, sightings and footprints are very rare. If a dog were dispatched even immidiately the Bigfoot would probably be thousands of feet away. I don't think any dog would be able to run over 35 mph in dense wood and brush.
Fishhound wrote:
[#008000]Is this a verified documented fact (if so, please supply a valid reference) or, is this second hand speculation (if so, do not claim it to be a fact) ?[/#008000]
[#000000]Now, we would not be having this discussion if this is verified officially 100%. It was reported by a winess who saw a Bigfoot along a road. It has also been reported on two other seperate occassions in Northern Idaho, where a woman and man were chased by a Bigfoot while driving thier car on a mountain raod. These reports are on the Bigfoot Field Researcher's Organization (BFRO).[/#000000]
Fishhound wrote:
[#008000]I don't know where you obtained your information about dogs, but, here is the real scoop; Grey hounds can run 45 mph, wolves run about 35-40 on a short sprint. Regardless of the sprinting, wolves and hounds can cover 20-30 miles without resting. Bipedal primates (except highly trained marathon runners) are known to be physically unable to do that.[/#008000] [#008000]Since canines can run at the speeds you suggest for Bigfoot and can cover more ground faster than any known bipedal primate species, why are you asserting that the use of tracking dogs would be unreliable ?[/#008000]
I said in my statement that only hounds can run over 35 mph, not that no dog can. Same thing with wolves. Go back and you will see it there in my statement:
"dog breed except the race hounds will reach above 35 mph, especially in thick brush ."
These hounds you and I talke about cannot do this in brush and wooded areas. There is a special breed in Africa which regularly chases rabbits on hard rock and in heat, but that is much different than places where Bigfoots are sighted. How many of those hounds are trained to look for primates anyway? You know very well that dogs can overheat very easily. A Bigfoot could probably run much farther without overheaing.
It has been estimated by again Mr. Krantz and Meldrum (as well as other scientists) that a Bigfoot would have no problem sustaining top speed for prolonged periods of time. There have been reports out of Washington where Bigfoots have been seen running up slopes at spectacular speeds for a long time, easily 30 minutes or more. There is probably also no other fully bipedal primate (except humans and Sasquatch). Gorillas, chimps, gibbons, and orangutans are not fully bipedal. Humans easily outrun them. Bigfoots are like humans, they are fully bipedal.
I never said that no dog would attack or that a dog would be always killed by a Bigfoot. Chances are though, greatly, that the dog would be killed.
I think you probably know that from research such as Jane Gooda's it is almost clear that Gorillas emit some kind of sound which humans cannot hear, but causes discomfort and sense of fright on part of humans. They also emit a strong stench from under thier armpits which repels predators. They probably need that there in the deep jungles, to protect them for jaguars and panthers. A dog would also shy away at the same sines, most of the time.
I read through the quotations you included. They are perfectly good arguments though they accomplish nothing to disprove Krantz or Meldrum's work. I have also read the book titled: Bigfoot Exposed, by Mr. Daegling. Nowhere in his text does he come close to disproving any footprints, the Bossburg Casts, or the 1967 Patterson-Gimlin Film. He is referred to often because he has been the only scientists to openly and publically get involved in trying to disprove the Skookum Cast, or other Bigfoot evidence described by the 12 scientists I mentiond and Krantz, Meldrum.
--One more thing I forgot to mention. To show that not everyone at Idah State University is against Dr. Meldrum I will type this. Dr. Andrew Nelson is a biomechanics expert and has commented on numerous occasions on how unlikely it was that a hoaxes possed the necessary knowledge to fake the Patterson Bigfoot. This can be found on pages 175-177 of Meldrum's book.
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