NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - Printable Version +- Fishing Forum (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum) +-- Forum: Float Tube Fishing (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=396) +--- Forum: Float Tubing General (https://bigfishtackle.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=81) +--- Thread: NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade (/showthread.php?tid=564890)

NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-16-2010 Hi Folks I got rid of my float tube a few months back and since October I have been fishing from an 8 foot Spring Creek Hopper II pram. Once that pram is on the water, it is really great to fish from. Problem is, I am 60 and live up one flight of stairs in San Francisco. Every time I go fishing with the pram I have to get that 100lb beast and all the associated stuff up and down those stairs. I have rigged up a block & tackle setup with a roll of carpet remnant to slide it on, but it's still a major production. I have been looking at the North Fork Outdoors / Dave Scadden frameless boats, specifically the Outlaw Renegade. It's kind of a cross between a float tube and a pontoon boat. What appeals to me about it is: 1) rowable (although the supplied oars look pretty short) 2) light weight (28lbs) 3) huge flotation capacity (800 lbs) 4) what should be very fast setup with no frame to build 5) bladderless construction and lots of air chambers for safety 6) comfy looking seat with adequate room behind it for wet storage (and I do have waterproof bags that would go there nicely. 7) they recommend using the Scotty strap-around anchor davit on the rear, but there's no provision for anchoring from the front. Scadden claims it is super maneuverable and easy to row (but he's a salesman). My concerns about the boat are: 1) do you sit as low as a float tube, ie: butt in the water? I don't think so but it's hard to tell from the pictures 2) fly line handling. One of the most frustrating things about my FatCat float tube was line handling. The stripping apron was pretty much non-functional and fly line was hanging up on all the protrusions that are out there in front of you when you are seated in it. The Scadden boat looks to be more snag-free, but I don't see any good place to anchor a stripping apron. Scadden says their rectangular one will work sitting in my lap, but my lap is already pretty well occupied by my gut. This issue is a big one for me. 3) lack of front anchor provision, but I'm sure I could work something out. 4) with the difficulty of using an electric trolling motor like I do on the pram, I wonder how easy it is to row the thing moderate distances. Perhaps stepping up to the next bigger model (Outlaw Rampage) with longer oars would make rowing distances easier? 5) can't stand up to pee, so would have to go ashore for that. You may laugh, but if you are an older guy with T2 diabetes, you generally need to pee fairly frequently. I think going ashore for this will be less of a production than with the float tube though since you don't *have* to wear flippers in this boat (although you can) and since I now have zip-front waders. I feel like staying away from the framed boats is a winner for me. The more I think about all that additional setup and teardown time, and the rather flaky standing platform and support idea (if you pull back on the support it just folds back, I'd probably fall down). What do y'all think about these frameless 'toons? [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - mme1 - 02-16-2010 the ones i have seen around here your but is still in the water but you are a little higher than a tube witch helps with casting dave builds a good product all he does is fish but his product lines seem to change often leaving service out after purchase. ex. i bought an expensive custom graphite rod with a lifetime guarantee but now he doesnt build rods any more so the guarantee is worthless you may find a similar product from cabellas and they will be around to take care of you [fishin] [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-16-2010 NO your butt is NOT in the water. If there is a huge chop, it might get wet, but it does on the framed model. I had that seat on my Pontoon and it was fantastic. Two metal struts down the back to keep it's shape. I have own NFO for about 20 years in one way or another (Dave was a designer for Outcast). I had the NAVIGATOR II up until last year. It was like the demo for todays boats. Frameless, Urethane bladder, 9', rowable, inflateable seat. But it had a zippered back section and I used the aluminum deck for battery/motor Came with a nice back pack: It had a seat like the SFC. But I sat above the water. The new design is wider and the area of the seat even higher. The oars could be a little short, but that is for packability and you get use to them easy enough. I now own the Outlaw X5 and love the heck out of it. The best on the market. Light weight, bladderless, and the most stable design. You can float a river in a standing position and it still floats straight. Not like a pontoon that wants to turn. The standing platform is larger than the ones on the Outcast, and with the little lock accessory, they are very stable. I just use the back of the seat if I need to grab something. Well, there is your answer from someone who owns NFO and will never buy anything else. A little one sided, but built on trust and satisfaction. My pontoon was 10 years old when I sold it. No leaks ever and still looked new. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-16-2010 One more thing. IF you can get different oars for it, I HIGHLY recommend the Graphite oars. There is a big difference. [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-16-2010 Thanks Joni.... I knew you'd respond, and I'm glad you did! [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-16-2010 I have the 7' version of those oars on my pram. They're actually made by Sawyer. You're right, they are really good oars. I think they are probably more necessary when floating rivers than stillwater though, and I do mostly stillwater. I got them for my pram mostly because they break down into two sections and fit better in my little car. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-16-2010 Well I hardly ever float rivers and bought this for stillwater and I will take ANYBODY on with these oars. I fly through the water. Bigger paddle, flex, light weight.....and pretty! [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-16-2010 Oh, I agree, I really do like mine too. I might look at them as an upgrade option down the line. Right now I am trying to decide between the 9' Renegade and the 10' Rampage. Since I don't see any difference between them other than another foot of length and another 500lbs capacity (that I don't need, 800lbs is way more than enough), the 60% additional cost seems pretty out of line. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - pontoonman - 02-16-2010 If not getting your butt wet is a high priority, you might look at the watermaster http://www.bigskyinflatables.com/WM_Models_and_Specs.html That might be the case if you don't wear waders in the summer say, like me. There used to be another brand designed along the lines of watermaster as well but I don't remember the name. Otherwise, I agree that the NFO appears to be better in every other measure, and is a good product from the reviews I have read elsewhere. Pon [quote michaelnel]Hi Folks I got rid of my float tube a few months back and since October I have been fishing from an 8 foot Spring Creek Hopper II pram. Once that pram is on the water, it is really great to fish from. Problem is, I am 60 and live up one flight of stairs in San Francisco. Every time I go fishing with the pram I have to get that 100lb beast and all the associated stuff up and down those stairs. I have rigged up a block & tackle setup with a roll of carpet remnant to slide it on, but it's still a major production. I have been looking at the North Fork Outdoors / Dave Scadden frameless boats, specifically the Outlaw Renegade. It's kind of a cross between a float tube and a pontoon boat. What appeals to me about it is: 1) rowable (although the supplied oars look pretty short) 2) light weight (28lbs) 3) huge flotation capacity (800 lbs) 4) what should be very fast setup with no frame to build 5) bladderless construction and lots of air chambers for safety 6) comfy looking seat with adequate room behind it for wet storage (and I do have waterproof bags that would go there nicely. 7) they recommend using the Scotty strap-around anchor davit on the rear, but there's no provision for anchoring from the front. Scadden claims it is super maneuverable and easy to row (but he's a salesman). My concerns about the boat are: 1) do you sit as low as a float tube, ie: butt in the water? I don't think so but it's hard to tell from the pictures 2) fly line handling. One of the most frustrating things about my FatCat float tube was line handling. The stripping apron was pretty much non-functional and fly line was hanging up on all the protrusions that are out there in front of you when you are seated in it. The Scadden boat looks to be more snag-free, but I don't see any good place to anchor a stripping apron. Scadden says their rectangular one will work sitting in my lap, but my lap is already pretty well occupied by my gut. This issue is a big one for me. 3) lack of front anchor provision, but I'm sure I could work something out. 4) with the difficulty of using an electric trolling motor like I do on the pram, I wonder how easy it is to row the thing moderate distances. Perhaps stepping up to the next bigger model (Outlaw Rampage) with longer oars would make rowing distances easier? 5) can't stand up to pee, so would have to go ashore for that. You may laugh, but if you are an older guy with T2 diabetes, you generally need to pee fairly frequently. I think going ashore for this will be less of a production than with the float tube though since you don't *have* to wear flippers in this boat (although you can) and since I now have zip-front waders. I feel like staying away from the framed boats is a winner for me. The more I think about all that additional setup and teardown time, and the rather flaky standing platform and support idea (if you pull back on the support it just folds back, I'd probably fall down). What do y'all think about these frameless 'toons?[/quote] [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - Jim_T - 02-16-2010 I recently bought the X5 Outlaw before the new frameless models were announced. I initially had a little buyer's remorse until I looked harder at how I intend to use it. The new models appear much easier to set up as well as travel with (I'm still getting my set-up/travel process down). However, I love the standing platform and ability to put a trolling motor on mine while still in the traditional orientation (not the zodiac style) plus I can still use my fins for orientation when in the zodiac style which I will be using soon when I get a gas motor for salt water. It's the classic trade-off but consider this: You might want to check with NFO and see if the X5 frame can be put on the Renegade. You might not want to buy it now but for the same $500 upgrade you would spend for the Rampage you would have the standing platform (now with a locking device so you can pull on it to stand up/sit down) and the ability to use a trolling motor. While you have them on the phone, have them mail you the new 2010 DVD. You'll get to see many of the new models in action. [signature] Re: [Jim_T] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-16-2010 First off, Pontoon,I would bet your but will get as wet in the NFO as the Watermaster...same idea, if you know what I mean. I just don't like the idea of having to climb over the from of the Watermaster. Put a leash on you NFO, and can stand up anywhere. I am with you Jim. I bought the BAG for my Outlaw. The whole thing fits in a large bag. Plus like you, I love the options of standing up, turning it around...PLUS my husband and I both have the Outlaw...we can put both frames on one boat. Dave thinks of it all. But I also like the packability of the frameless. If I didn't have my trailer...that is the way I would HAVE to go as I do have a little trouble putting my toon on my roof....[laugh] Tube Dude has seen how easy I have it with the trailer. [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-17-2010 My asking about butt in the water was because one place I really enjoy fishing (Baum Lake) has horrendous weed growth in the summer. When I was there last Labor Day weekend I was using my FatCat float tube and my legs were frequently loaded up with 20lbs of weeds all the way up to my knees. It was super frustrating. In the winter the weeds are not nearly as bad, but I have been using the pram up there the past few trips and it is a very shallow draft vessel. As long as I am careful about how deep I let the oars get in the weeds, I can paddle through that stuff to get out to the clear water. I am hoping that the Outlaw Renegade will allow me to have my legs and butt clear of the weeds so I can paddle through there. I think it will. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-17-2010 Oh heck yeah. Lift your feet up and row through that stuff. I fish a small lake that has several areas about 18" deep and the weeds get so bad, you can get stuck. If it weren't for oars...I would still be there...[laugh][laugh][laugh] They take thoughs down river and they do great so again I am saying you bum will be out of the water...might get wet, but not sitting in the water. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - pontoonman - 02-17-2010 I think anything that gets your feet up out of the water and allows you to row past the weed patches will work. The lowest cost and lightest way to go would be a pontoon with a high mounted seat, and it would have a bonus of keeping your butt dry. This one has a high riding seat and low weight compared to your pram http://www.traderhank.com/arrow-backpacker_pontoon-yellow-62267.html NFO or watermaster may ride above the water but some water may splash in, as goddess has indicated. Another possiblity is something like the sea eagle, but at a higher cost http://www.campingandfishingaccessories.com/content-product_info/cat-186_211/product_id-3173/sea_eagle_285_fpb_pontoon_deluxe_package.html Pon [quote michaelnel]My asking about butt in the water was because one place I really enjoy fishing (Baum Lake) has horrendous weed growth in the summer. When I was there last Labor Day weekend I was using my FatCat float tube and my legs were frequently loaded up with 20lbs of weeds all the way up to my knees. It was super frustrating. In the winter the weeds are not nearly as bad, but I have been using the pram up there the past few trips and it is a very shallow draft vessel. As long as I am careful about how deep I let the oars get in the weeds, I can paddle through that stuff to get out to the clear water. I am hoping that the Outlaw Renegade will allow me to have my legs and butt clear of the weeds so I can paddle through there. I think it will.[/quote] [signature] Re: [pontoonman] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-17-2010 I can't answer for him, but the first one has a frame and the second one???? How do you kick? Seems the floor is just gonna collect water. And I wouldn't stand without a bar. How does that wooden floor pack up? It does have some nice features, but I would want to be able to kick as well. That to me is the beauty of a pontoon. Otherwise, I would by a Kayak (inflateable of course...LOL) [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-17-2010 I just got off the phone with NFO and I ordered the Outlaw Renegade in red. They said the boat should arrive here sometime next week. This will be fun! [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - pontoonman - 02-17-2010 Hi, goddess. [quote flygoddess]I can't answer for him, but the first one has a frame and the second one???? A frame doesn't have to be disassembled if the passage upstairs is narrow enough; the pontoons can be deflated to pass narrow sections easily with this very lightweight boat. The assembled frame and deflated pontoons stored out of sight in a small closet or maybe under a bed? But I agree that frameless is still the best, just too high $ for me with only very minor discounts available AFAIK, nothing like Cabellas 80% bargain barn. Hey maybe I can start looking there since Cabellas will be handling NFO. How do you kick? Seems the floor is just gonna collect water. And I wouldn't stand without a bar. How does that wooden floor pack up? Some wooden floors roll up. No kicking from what I can see. You right, only thing I hate more than a wet butt is marinating my feet in muddy water on an all day outing. Pon It does have some nice features, but I would want to be able to kick as well. That to me is the beauty of a pontoon. Otherwise, I would by a Kayak (inflateable of course...LOL)[/quote] [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-19-2010 [quote flygoddess]One more thing. IF you can get different oars for it, I HIGHLY recommend the Graphite oars. There is a big difference.[/quote] I emailed nfo yesterday and asked about upgrading the oars. Dave answered, said they could upgrade them for "$199 instead of $549", which I find funny, since anyone can just order a set for them for $199 since that is their current published price for them. And $549? Haha... So, Dave is ever the salesman. I told them to go ahead with the upgrade. I haven't been able to get an answer to "when will it ship" though. Hopefully, the third time's a charm. [signature] Re: [michaelnel] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - flygoddess - 02-19-2010 Got no idea what that $549. is about...dang, they ain't gold! Isn't a frame around that price? I do know $199 is as low as he can go on them. [signature] Re: [flygoddess] NFO / Scadden Outlaw Renegade - michaelnel - 02-19-2010 [quote flygoddess]Got no idea what that $549. is about...dang, they ain't gold! Isn't a frame around that price? I do know $199 is as low as he can go on them.[/quote] ... and coincidentally, that's as low as he went. [] [signature]