After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way!

After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - Printable Version

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After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - SENKOSAM1 - 07-01-2025

I got four non-vehicle motors that ALL needed service: lawn mowers (John Deere, walk-behind); 40 hp and 2.5 hp boat motors. I'm talking over a grand for non-starting! Culprit: old gas left in each most likely the problem that screwed up the carbs. Granted, I used Sta-bil in gas cans and in tanks of all four (something I found not advisable for use in 2- and 4- stroke motors. Annual storage lasts 5 mos. with gas sitting in each carb. My boat motor and lawn mower mechanics said the same thing: gum and varnish in the carbs preventing gas flow. Now I know to run the gas out of each and dump any gas-can gas into my cars and truck. (I don't know how to empty the gas in my snow blower unused for up to 9 mos.)

One very frustrating and very expensive repair was done by four shops on my 2.5 hp Merc 4-stroke - three of which took my money and didn't repair a thing! Finally after a year, I not only found why the motor wouldn't start, but how to start the motor by NOT following the owner's manual. The manual said to:
1. pull out the choke knob
2. open gas tank vent
3. open gas flow knob
4. put throttle handle in start mode
5. pull the cord

Here are the instructions printed on the handle:

Even after all the expense, which included many round-trips miles away to each shop with my truck, the motor started only out of the water, but even then, most of the time wouldn't restart.
My mechanic didn't have a clue. He said it started for him and proved it with the lower unit in a tank of water. On the boat and in the water - nothing!

Okay, you would think at least one boat motor mechanic would have put together some reasons for what I described. Don't hold your breath! I had to go online to find the possible causes. Here we go:
A 2.5 Mercury outboard motor, particularly a 2-stroke model, can be difficult to restart in the water, sometimes even more so than on land. Possible reasons:
1. [font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Water in the Exhaust Housing[/font][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]:[/font]

When restarting in the water, the exhaust housing (the section between the powerhead and the lower unit) fills with water.
This creates back pressure, making it harder for the engine to reach the required RPM for the ignition system to function properly.
For engines with magneto capacitance discharge ignition (like some Mercury 2- and 4-strokes), a minimum RPM is needed for the flywheel magnets to generate sufficient voltage for spark.

2. Carburetor Flooding:

Outboard carburetors can flood easily, particularly in 2-stroke engines.
Over-choking or improperly using the choke, especially when trying to restart, can contribute to flooding.*
A strong fuel smell around the engine is a tell-tale sign of flooding.
Other causes of flooding include:
- Float system problems: damaged or mijusted floats can lead to excessive fuel entering the carburetor bowl.
- Needle valve issues: worn or stuck needle valves can fail to shut off fuel flow.
- Fuel pump problems: excessive fuel pressure or leaking diaphragms can cause flooding.
- Stuck choke plate: a choke that remains closed or partially closed can create a overly rich fuel mixture.
4. Other Potential Issues:
- Fuel system problems: Old or contaminated fuel, clogged fuel filters or fuel lines can disrupt fuel flow.
- Spark plug problems: Dirty or worn spark plugs can prevent ignition.
- Electrical issues: Problems with the ignition coil, safety lanyard, or kill switch can hinder starting.
- Compression issues: Low compression can prevent the engine from running.
Important Note: Repeatedly trying to start a flooded engine can worsen the issue and potentially damage the engine.
Got it after all the expense and B.S.!
So, the motor stayed outside on a stand for over a week getting ready for the trash when I decided one last time to try starting it. But get this: I didn't notice the choke was all the way in and I pulled the cord. IT STARTED AND RESTARTED, though not in WATER! and with the choke all the way in - something counter to the owner's manual. I put the motor in water and restarted it, letting it run at the lowest idle speed. IT DIDN'T STALL ONCE! I did this for 3 consecutive days, early morning with air temp at 70 and mid day with air temperature near 90 degrees. Started every time and idled without stalling once and with THE CHOKE position unchanged -ALWAYS IN!

[*]
Note: one piece of advice my mechanic gave me: for better starting, use only fresh, non-ethanol, high-octane gas in the 2.5 hp 4-stroke. Improved gas mileage is also an advantage.

Note: the same mechanic said that gas stays in the carb even when not running for a time and choking it when restarting it is usually not necessary but may lead to flooding if the choke knob is pulled half way like the instructions say. (see photo)

Note: I spoke with someone about the best oil to use for either the 4 or 2 stroke motors. He stated use only marine-grade oils meant for each. 2 for 2; 4 for 4.
He agreed that non-ethanol gas is best, always dump unused gas but before that to add Quickstore to the gas in the tank to clean carb before running dry.
[*]Note: the great source for the above information once I gave him the serial #:
[*][font="Open Sans", sans-serif]Boat Prop Warehouse 920-788-0220 - svc extension[/font]
[*]
As of yesterday, the motor runs fine. I still have to run it in the lake on the transom to see if it starts and restarts. But after all the expense and frustration, I finally found what was needed to maintain the motor and keep it running. Guess I won't trash the motor after all. To buy a new one cost over $750 - less than it took to repair it! Smile

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - wiperhunter2 - 07-01-2025

(07-01-2025, 08:52 AM)SENKOSAM1 Wrote: I got four non-vehicle motors that ALL needed service: lawn mowers (John Deere, walk-behind); 40 hp and 2.5 hp boat motors. I'm talking over a grand for non-starting! Culprit: old gas left in each most likely the problem that screwed up the carbs. Granted, I used Sta-bil in gas cans and in tanks of all four (something I found not advisable for use in 2- and 4- stroke motors. Annual storage lasts 5 mos. with gas sitting in each carb. My boat motor and lawn mower mechanics said the same thing: gum and varnish in the carbs preventing gas flow. Now I know to run the gas out of each and dump any gas-can gas into my cars and truck. (I don't know how to empty the gas in my snow blower unused for up to 9 mos.)

One very frustrating and very expensive repair was done by four shops on my 2.5 hp Merc 4-stroke - three of which took my money and didn't repair a thing! Finally after a year, I not only found why the motor wouldn't start, but how to start the motor by NOT following the owner's manual. The manual said to:
1. pull out the choke knob
2. open gas tank vent
3. open gas flow knob
4. put throttle handle in start mode
5. pull the cord

I use Sea foam on all my two stroke motors, especilly those that sit for long periods of time. But I also use sta-bil, and you are saying that it's bad to use it?

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - SENKOSAM1 - 07-01-2025

This source told me by phone Sta-bil is not advisable as long as the carb is run dry and non-ethanol gas is used.
Boat Prop Warehouse 920-788-0220 svc
I gave him the serial # and he looked up what was needed. He was very informative about other questions I had including spark plug, gap and when to change - a genius when it came to small and large marine motors.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - SENKOSAM1 - 07-01-2025

Other tips Boat Prop Warehouse gave me:
For my 4 stroke:
marine oil 10W-30 Mercury or Quicksilver (mineral - not synthetic) or
Quicksilver / Mercury Marine 25W-40 Oil

Spark plug - NGK DCPR6E .033 gap: suppressor (resistor)

Non ethanol gas; 91 octane Do not use Stabil in gas.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - SENKOSAM1 - 07-01-2025

(07-01-2025, 09:30 AM)wiperhunter2 Wrote:
(07-01-2025, 08:52 AM)SENKOSAM1 Wrote: I got four non-vehicle motors that ALL needed service: lawn mowers (John Deere, walk-behind); 40 hp and 2.5 hp boat motors. I'm talking over a grand for non-starting! Culprit: old gas left in each most likely the problem that screwed up the carbs. Granted, I used Sta-bil in gas cans and in tanks of all four (something I found not advisable for use in 2- and 4- stroke motors. Annual storage lasts 5 mos. with gas sitting in each carb. My boat motor and lawn mower mechanics said the same thing: gum and varnish in the carbs preventing gas flow. Now I know to run the gas out of each and dump any gas-can gas into my cars and truck. (I don't know how to empty the gas in my snow blower unused for up to 9 mos.)

One very frustrating and very expensive repair was done by four shops on my 2.5 hp Merc 4-stroke - three of which took my money and didn't repair a thing! Finally after a year, I not only found why the motor wouldn't start, but how to start the motor by NOT following the owner's manual. The manual said to:
1. pull out the choke knob
2. open gas tank vent
3. open gas flow knob
4. put throttle handle in start mode
5. pull the cord

I use Sea foam on all my two stroke motors, especilly those that sit for long periods of time. But I also use sta-bil, and you are saying that it's bad to use it?

The three sources that I've been learning a lot about my motors - 2-stroke and 4-stroke, say in general that it's not beneficial considering the time gas is used and then run out from each motor's tank at the end of the season. Rather than fill a 5 gal. gas can, I'll fill it halfway because the tank on the 2.5 hp is only .3 gal and used maybe twice a week in hot weather.
Like you, I used Sta-bil for years and still needed expensive carb repairs. But since I bought STA-BIL 360 Marine Ethanol Treatment and Fuel Stabilizer in June, I may as well use it for the 4 gal. still in the gas can.

Note: For some reason the motor wouldn't start today.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - SENKOSAM1 - 08-07-2025

Something simple yet missed by all those techs: gas cap not venting.
After picking up the motor and putting it on the transom, the motor still wouldn't start. But just as I was going to sell it cheap online, out of the blue, I decided to loosen the gas cap. The vent knob on top was loosened every time yet gas couldn't get to the carb. Sure enough, it started every time and ran at a slow idle!

I figure that in the hot sun, something was going on with the vent on the gas cap and a vacuum formed inside the tank. Once the cap was loosened or removed, no problem.

Too bad, I ordered a 62# thrust Newport trolling motor for $300. Powerful but no longer needed.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - wiperhunter2 - 08-07-2025

(08-07-2025, 06:19 AM)SENKOSAM1 Wrote: Something simple yet missed by all those techs: gas cap not venting.
After picking up the motor and putting it on the transom, the motor still wouldn't start. But just as I was going to sell it cheap online, out of the blue, I decided to loosen the gas cap. The vent knob on top was loosened every time yet gas couldn't get to the carb. Sure enough, it started every time and ran at a slow idle!

I figure that in the hot sun, something was going on with the vent on the gas cap and a vacuum formed inside the tank. Once the cap was loosened or removed, no problem.

Too bad, I ordered a 62# thrust Newport trolling motor for $300. Powerful but no longer needed.

Depending on what kind of fishing you are doing, an electric trolling motor is a great addition to any boat. If casting or vertical jigging it can hold you in one spot with the anchor lock function, at least my Minnkota has that function. When trolling, I use mine for steering with the auto pilot function and have my kicker gas motor for pushing the boat, that way you are not using all the power in your electric trolling motor battery. On a typical day out fishing for me, I'm out for 6 hrs at a time. Glad to hear you figured out the problem with you gas motor, gas tank not venting. All motors are great when they work properly but when problems arise, they sure can cause us to stress out.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - Kent - 08-07-2025

" (I don't know how to empty the gas in my snow blower unused for up to 9 mos.)"

This one is easy, do what I do. After the snow season is over, I pump (or syphon) out all of the gas that I can get out of the tank. I then start the snow blower and let it run until it dies. I do not add gas, to the tank, again until next time it snows enough to need to use the snow blower. I do the same thing with my lawn mower. I also have a portable generator that is just available if the home power goes out for a few hours (or more). Approximately, every six months I had a cup or two of gas to the gas tank, start the generator and let it run until it dies.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - Bduck - 08-08-2025

I have a walk behind snow thrower that I pull gas line at tank to drain and start up to run until it dies. Don't have any issues come next winter. My lawn tractor gets use year-round, I have a snow thrower attachment for heavier use helping neighbors sometimes.

RE: After expensive repairs at shops, learned lessons the hard way! - RockyRaab2 - 08-12-2025

You may be the most recent guy to learn that cheap gas isn't - but you won't be the last.

If you run non-ethanol gas in all your small engines, everything else is icing on the cake. Sta-Bil and Sea Foam are both excellent if you have to store gas, but the smartest thing is to just use any leftovers and buy fresh in the Spring.

I don't run my 50-hp Merc dry for the winter because I don't have access to cooling water at the storage unit. Non-eth and Sea Foam see me through the winter just fine. I do fill the tank and close the vent to keep condensation to a minimum.

My only other small engines are a snow blower and a small generator. I empty their tanks and run them dry for storage.